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[KuRi]

Hi!

After a day putting the DSR to the limits (), today I have the feeling that the bike is slower than before...

Is this possible? (something damaged, engine lose of power) or is it just that I am getting used to the torque and is only a feeling... The eco mode now looks like riding a 50cc bike and takes forever to reach the 100kmh and I have the feeling that the sport mode takes too long to give me the full torque (after 30-40 kmh).

Just curious about your feelings, Thanks!

[TheRan]

That's definitely not right, my lower powered DS in eco mode is nearly twice as fast as my old but fairly quick 125. Torque is limited from a stop but you should have full torque available by something like 25km/h. I think any torque limiting should be indicated by the warning triangle and possibly the check engine light on the dash, the triangle for expected limitations such as due to a low SoC or high motor temp and the check engine light for actual faults. It should also show up in the logs and those will also give you details of why it's happening.

[MrBlc]

If you put the bike to work, you could have triggered thermal protections that reduce the power to safe guard the bike.

You could pull this from the log on the bike.

They are not really built to be put to max load on electronics over an extended time..

[KuRi]

Thanks for your help, I meant the day after... once the bike is cold and ready to play.

How can I check the logs?

[TheRan]

Pair your phone and then there'll be an option in the app to download the logs (MBB and BMS, the latter takes quite a bit longer). Once they're sent it will give you an option to send them to Zero, instead you can apparently change the receiving email address to your own (my phone wouldn't let me) or you can download them off your phone. After that you can run the logs through a parser and read them.

A few more details posted in my thread here, check out the links Brian posted: https://www.electricmotorcycleforum.com/boards/index.php?topic=9725

[KuRi]

I have tried, but the parser gives error saying not supported... maybe 2020 logs are newer and are not already supported?
def decode_str(log_text_segment: bytearray) -> str: SyntaxError: invalid syntax

On the other hand, I have tried the 0-100km/h (from total stop) test in eco mode and the bike did it in ~10 secs, more or less the same I have seen on several videos on internet. Have you measured that also?

Thanks.

[TheRan]

I did see the note on the parser that it may not work on 2017+ models, it works for my 2019 (comes up with an error I think but still gives the option to view the logs and they're readable) but perhaps I'm just lucky. There must be some other parser that works as I can't imagine everyone with newer bikes just doesn't check the logs, Brian's probably the best person to ask for that.

In eco mode I managed just under 6 seconds on my bike to 60mph so it would probably be a full 6 seconds to 100km/h. That would be with about 42Nm of torque where as your DSR should be more like 62Nm in eco mode (40% of full torque).

EDIT: My mistake, it was 5.8 seconds with full torque (wasn't really trying too hard) and it was just under 6.5 seconds in either eco mode or my custom setting with 60% torque, the latter would be roughly what a DSR is in eco mode. Either way, around 10 seconds to 100km/h is far slower than what should be expected.

[KuRi]

6 seconds in eco mode??? from a full stop? flat ground? how is that possible? What time do you get on sport mode? xDD

[TheRan]

Edited my post. I would guess that in good conditions and going full throttle from the start I'd get close to 5 seconds in sport mode, maybe just under.

[KuRi]

Mine does 5.0 secs on sport mode actually... but eco mode is really slow. My problem is that I think it was not so slow when I got the bike two weeks ago :S

I see very small differences in eco and sport mode for you... but that does not make too much sense, right? I have always thought that eco vs sport is a world difference...

My real question is: can the engine be degraded just because I reached the top speed for 10 seconds the other day, only once?

[Richard230]

I can tell you that air temperature can make a noticeable difference in battery performance.  My experience is that there is a big drop in range and apparent power when the ambient air temperature drops from 30 degrees to 10 degrees C - and it just gets worse as the temperature drops further.

One thing you can try is to adjust your custom settings to top speed and torque and give that a try.  On my bike running everything to 100% in the custom setting seems to provide more performance than the factory "sport" settings. 

[Doug S]

No real way of telling remotely if something's wrong, but throughout my motorcycling "career" I've been amazed how fast I get used to higher torque/horsepower when I upgrade my bike. At first it's eyes-wide-open awesome, then just a couple of days later I'm left wanting more again.

For me, it's one of the reasons I find motorcycling addictive.

[TheRan]

Mine does 5.0 secs on sport mode actually... but eco mode is really slow. My problem is that I think it was not so slow when I got the bike two weeks ago :S

I see very small differences in eco and sport mode for you... but that does not make too much sense, right? I have always thought that eco vs sport is a world difference...

My real question is: can the engine be degraded just because I reached the top speed for 10 seconds the other day, only once?

I should point out that I did my runs on different days, I think it was colder on the sport mode test, and I went full throttle much sooner on the eco mode test (as I was less worried about breaking traction). Plus it was most likely on my custom mode with 60% torque instead of eco's 40% as I don't really use eco mode anymore. So, I'd estimate the actual time difference between eco and sport mode from 0-60mph would be more like 1.5 to 2 seconds.

According to the English Electric site (only place I've found that lists up to date times) your DSR should be capable of 3.9 seconds 0-60mph (96.5km/h), although of course that's going to be best case scenario. Strangely they say the SR can do it in 3.3 seconds, the only relevant difference between the bikes is tyres so I guess even in the best case (warm tyres in warm weather) it'll still have enough torque to break traction.

[KuRi]

Thanks for all the info mates, very helpful.

They always say that the SR is more dynamics friendly (if this term exists xD) and has more range, greater top speed and better acceleration. I also read that 3.9s for my DSR, which I think is very hard to reproduce. I tried today and I only got 5.0s in the best scenario.

I have found some videos of 2019 SR with a time of ~4s from 0 to 60mph, and several videos of DSR 2019 with a time of ~5s... so mine is not too far. Also the top speed remains the same, I can't pass 172km/h (tried twice, and I think I won't try anymore).

I am assuming that if my motor had any performance problem I could not reach the top speed that everybody with the same bike is reaching (I have read about more than 10 users with SR and DSR saying that 107mph is their top). Am I right?

Cheers!!!

[DonTom]

I can tell you that air temperature can make a noticeable difference in battery performance.  My experience is that there is a big drop in range and apparent power when the ambient air temperature drops from 30 degrees to 10 degrees C

Between 30°C (86°F) and 10°C (50°F) what percentage of range would you say is lost?

BTW, my Zero DS goes to the shop this morning for its lack of range issue. But I lost at least  50% of my range since last summer.


-Don-  Reno, NV