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[smithy]

https://www.motomanuals.net/energica/

Once connected, ignore the pop-ups and scroll down to pdf downloads.

Applies to 1st gen Ego/Eva bikes not the EMCE variants but still good reference given common frame, suspension, steering-head, brake, swingarm, wheel, switchgear, bodywork bits have not changed.

Not much good if you own an Experia....totally different animal.

Smithy.

[PWM]

Not much good if you own an Experia....totally different animal.

Smithy.

This is true but intent of this thread from the beginning was not about the Experia but rather an Eva maintenance session which makes the maintenance manual web-link provided even more relevant to the discussion than the continual thread diversion to the Experia...

[Pard]

Looking through the site glass on a 2023 Rebelle at 2500 miles, my gear oil is pretty dark. 

Changed it at 400 miles and at 2000 miles. 

It was not that dirty at the 400 mile mark, had some but minor metallic debris on the magnetic plug.  No debris at the 2k mark.  Just dark oil.  Used the original spec gear oil https://store.robsdyno.com/product/legacy-motor-service-kit/

Spoke with EONE and they said it is normal.

What has been your experience?

[Specter]

I just checked my oil yesterday after a long day of running.  160 miles and first time seen my battery go yellow.  Then again it was 98 degrees out and I was pushing it pretty hard on the highway.  It didn't seem dark at all, straw color,  or is that dark and its supposed to be clear?

Aaron

[Pard]

I just checked my oil yesterday after a long day of running.  160 miles and first time seen my battery go yellow.  Then again it was 98 degrees out and I was pushing it pretty hard on the highway.  It didn't seem dark at all, straw color,  or is that dark and its supposed to be clear?

Aaron

Mine is grey.   I used to have straw color.  How many miles on that oil?

[Specter]

It's about 2900 now.

Aaron

[Pard]

Here is how mine looks with less mileage than yours.  I may ride it harder though.

Found this:


"mine's been grey at every gear oil change

if you look on the fill plug, you will find a fine metallic sludge built up on the magnetic plug. this is the material that is making your gear oil grey. it looks particularly bad right after new car purchase (ie new gear wear) or after the installation of higher ratio gears.

of any of the colors that have been described above, this is probably the best type of contamination to have (if you have newer gears). with subsequent changes the oil will be progressively less grey in color as the meshing surfaces wear into one another. eventually you shouldn't have much material coming off at all. i guess you have to know how many times and how recently the gear oil was changed, in order to really tell if something abnormal is going on. . . . although you don't want gear chunks on the magnet either, this would be bad. . . .

good luck"

[Specter]

That's pretty normal, the wear in / break in period as everything fine tunes and meshes itself to each other what they are describing.

As for how I ride, ehh, firstly im not very experienced yet, don't like to call myself any sort of 'experienced' when with groups of people who have ridden for probably half my age on a bike, so while what I may think is running hard is a walk in a park for them. 

I like to romp it when I can but not when it's being stupid.  ie I am NOT that asshole sewing their way thru traffic weaving in and out of cars like a sewing machine, but if there is a bit fo a straight away, yah, triple digits here I come. If it's a nice sunday morning and there is no traffic, then yah, im hittin' it.   I don't do the track yet but that's going to be changing here very fast.  The track by me is closed until Sept for heat reasons, (no comment on that one) but when it opens, I plan on being a regular there, and as you know I have also enrolled for that Yamaha school and will probably take any and all classes I can that can help me become a better rider, along with actually riding and learning of course.

Fine mud, is ok, that is normal wear and tear, and in fact, I can XRF my oil and see exactly what is in it and then from there extrapolate, ok what part is this wear from, (IF I can get from energica what metals were used for their gear train / bearings / loading surfaces etc) to know.  This one of the things I used to do in the navy with their oil analysis program, we'd light up an oil sample then see what all is in it and from there can go, ok you are eating your main bearing etc on the diesel.   I don't use the electrostatic one at home, I have a regular X ray XRF, but have access to the electrostatic whenever I need thru contacts with friends still in the navy but from what I have seen, mine is just as good and actually better since I can see into the low PPM's and I can CW my X-ray emitter for a longer sample time and better resolution via the few seconds of the electrostatic due to it's destructive nature.

Anyways... if you were tearing something up, Id think you should be able to see / hear that and FEEL that thru its performance,  the backlash when gear entrainment occurs would get more etc.  Since we don't have a clutch, just the back and forth rock will have to suffice.

Aaron

[Pard]

^^^ Thank you!

[smithy]

That's pretty normal, the wear in / break in period as everything fine tunes and meshes itself to each other what they are describing.

As for how I ride, ehh, firstly im not very experienced yet, don't like to call myself any sort of 'experienced' when with groups of people who have ridden for probably half my age on a bike, so while what I may think is running hard is a walk in a park for them. 

I like to romp it when I can but not when it's being stupid.  ie I am NOT that asshole sewing their way thru traffic weaving in and out of cars like a sewing machine, but if there is a bit fo a straight away, yah, triple digits here I come. If it's a nice sunday morning and there is no traffic, then yah, im hittin' it.   I don't do the track yet but that's going to be changing here very fast.  The track by me is closed until Sept for heat reasons, (no comment on that one) but when it opens, I plan on being a regular there, and as you know I have also enrolled for that Yamaha school and will probably take any and all classes I can that can help me become a better rider, along with actually riding and learning of course.

Fine mud, is ok, that is normal wear and tear, and in fact, I can XRF my oil and see exactly what is in it and then from there extrapolate, ok what part is this wear from, (IF I can get from energica what metals were used for their gear train / bearings / loading surfaces etc) to know.  This one of the things I used to do in the navy with their oil analysis program, we'd light up an oil sample then see what all is in it and from there can go, ok you are eating your main bearing etc on the diesel.   I don't use the electrostatic one at home, I have a regular X ray XRF, but have access to the electrostatic whenever I need thru contacts with friends still in the navy but from what I have seen, mine is just as good and actually better since I can see into the low PPM's and I can CW my X-ray emitter for a longer sample time and better resolution via the few seconds of the electrostatic due to it's destructive nature.

Anyways... if you were tearing something up, Id think you should be able to see / hear that and FEEL that thru its performance,  the backlash when gear entrainment occurs would get more etc.  Since we don't have a clutch, just the back and forth rock will have to suffice.

Aaron

There's not much in there to cause the oil colour change is there..?? Three little straight-cut gears in the case of the Rebelle, SS9 and EGO, little else...two little straight-cut gears in the case of the Experia, (the motor spins backwards on the Experia)....why it's going dark would be something I'd like to find out. My Experia is still clear after 7300km, I'll probably change it out at 10k km instead of the recommended 15k km. Even at the first "running-in" 1000km oil change it was still clear, no stray little bits of metal on the drain plug magnet either.

Smithy.

[Pard]

There's not much in there to cause the oil colour change is there..?? Three little straight-cut gears in the case of the Rebelle, SS9 and EGO, little else...two little straight-cut gears in the case of the Experia, (the motor spins backwards on the Experia)....why it's going dark would be something I'd like to find out. My Experia is still clear after 7300km, I'll probably change it out at 10k km instead of the recommended 15k km. Even at the first "running-in" 1000km oil change it was still clear, no stray little bits of metal on the drain plug magnet either.

Smithy.

When I spoke to tech at Energica of New England he told me that he has seen it, and it is normal just from the friction of the gears.  As long as there is no significant metallic accumulation on the drain plug, ride on.  I am puzzled as well why this discoloration happens on some bikes and not others. 

This link sort of helps make sense of it if you are using red fluid that AF1 sells.

https://cartreatments.com/transmission-fluid-color/

Why using the right lubrication matters:

[PWM]

It was mentioned that drain plug had sludge on it and based on sight glass picture it looks like residual moly-lube likely used in the assembly process.  The small amount of gear lube normally used is likely not enough to flush out all of it and reason discoloration persists.  If this was my bike, I would place bike on paddock stand and fill the gearbox w/ maybe 3x recommended amount and operate motor for a few minutes at modest speed w/ fill plug removed in a effort to rinse out the offending goo then drain and refill at normal level.  If you do this you must disable traction control and have rag handy to catch any fluid that spits out fill hole.  Just a thought or live with it as it appears benign.

[Specter]

Moly Lube, Cosmoline, or any other industrial lube / preservative / coatings that may have been put on the parts before assembly to keep rust and other oxidation crap off them.  Pretty much benign, but WILL discolor your oil first time or two until it get washed off via friction / detergent action of whatever lube you are using.

Each gearbox is unique, as each individual part has it's own individual tolerances on it, and now when you assemble them into a 'unit' they all have to play nice with each other, as they mesh in, wear in to the overall train.  Fine shavings are normal in fact as you go, will probably see small amounts through the life of the unit.  Ideally there will be none or minimal, but just their presence is not an issue unless it gets bigger parts or a LOT of them!

As for how much to change the oil color.  You have to remember, some of these particles are sub micron size, like stupid fine talcum powder fine.  It's not like your gear teeth are slamming and smashing into each other knocking chunks out, it's more initial contact wear if anything.  once you hit the power, and romp on it, and torque it, all the power vectors change, the loading surfaces change, especially as it torques up with the load, and new parts are now carrying the strain in different areas, engaging each other in ways not before seen.  When the powder is that stupid fine, it doesn't take much to change the color.  Take a rough piece of wood and sand it, it becomes smooth.  Kind of the same thing happening, the gears and cams  and whatever are rough... even though they may be machined, microscopically they are rough... as they rub on each other, they smooth each other out, just like sandpaper does when you rub it on wood, and what you are seeing is essentially the metal 'sawdust' of this action.

I also refine gold as one of my many hobbies.  When I drop it from an AR solution, the sediment can be anywhere from a dark grey color, to a reddish almost brown rust color, but it's all gold, and once you melt it down, it gets back to it's original color.  That's just because of it's miniscule size, how it diffracts the light and your eye interprets it. Don't let color or even it's presence scare you, again unless it's a lot.

Aaron

[Pard]

@PMW  and @Specter  Interesting insights indeed.  Thx!

[Pard]

It was mentioned that drain plug had sludge on it and based on sight glass picture it looks like residual moly-lube likely used in the assembly process.  The small amount of gear lube normally used is likely not enough to flush out all of it and reason discoloration persists.  If this was my bike, I would place bike on paddock stand and fill the gearbox w/ maybe 3x recommended amount and operate motor for a few minutes at modest speed w/ fill plug removed in a effort to rinse out the offending goo then drain and refill at normal level.  If you do this you must disable traction control and have rag handy to catch any fluid that spits out fill hole.  Just a thought or live with it as it appears benign.

Followed your recommendations and it worked like a charm.  Filled the gear box with 3x normal fluid after a drain of old.  Ran the bike a bit on a stand, drained and refilled with normal amount of fluid.

A couple of hundred mile later, so far the fluid is remaining clear.  Excellent idea.  Thank you.