ElectricMotorcycleForum.com

  • October 01, 2024, 05:44:05 AM
  • Welcome, Guest
Please login or register.

Login with username, password and session length
Advanced search  

News:

Electric Motorcycle Forum is live!

Pages: [1]

Author Topic: Off to a good start in 2020!  (Read 586 times)

shayan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 342
    • View Profile
Logged
-Shayan

2023 Energica Ribelle RS

Doug S

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1631
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #1 on: January 31, 2020, 12:20:48 AM »

I'd agree with the article's conclusion....the new battery pack is mostly responsible for the brisk sales. I'm still loving my Zero, but given Energica's obvious commitment to CCS charging and larger batteries, Energica very much has my attention for my next bike.
Logged
There's no better alarm clock than sunlight on asphalt.

shayan

  • Sr. Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 342
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #2 on: January 31, 2020, 01:56:12 AM »

The 13.4kWh bikes also are pretty attractive on the price too. I guess it's also triggering people to sell their older ones to upgrade to the new models.
Logged
-Shayan

2023 Energica Ribelle RS

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #3 on: January 31, 2020, 02:19:52 AM »

And there hasn't been a secondary market for them until now, which is good.

I wouldn't be here if someone didn't want to upgrade ^-^

-Crissa
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5

ultrarnr

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 838
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #4 on: January 31, 2020, 04:12:00 PM »

It is also good that Zero now has competition which will benefit all of us.
Logged

wavelet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #5 on: January 31, 2020, 06:16:52 PM »

I'd agree with the article's conclusion....the new battery pack is mostly responsible for the brisk sales. I'm still loving my Zero, but given Energica's obvious commitment to CCS charging and larger batteries, Energica very much has my attention for my next bike.
I think many potential buyers will be thinking the same, esp. given that of the three current actual EV motorcycle manufacturers (as opposed to scooters & mopeds), H-D is simply too expensive (and are they already planning sales in Europe?)

There's an interesting tidbit in that article: Preorders (lets call 'em sales) for (roughly) Jan. 2020 have been €1.4M, which are 40% of total 2019 sales. Using some guesstimates:
In Europe, price (pre-VAT) for the 21kWh models is ~€24.5K, €21K and €23K for the Ego+, EsseEsse9+ and Eva Ribelle respectively. I  assume most buyers went for the larger-battery versions (people interested primarily in shorter-range commuting can get a Zero for quite a bit cheaper). While I don't know the ASP, certainly not for all models together, I'd expect €23K to be a reasonable ballpark, with some owners ordering options as well.

That implies 60 bike pre-ordered in Jan., which in turn implies ~150 Energica bikes ere sold in 2019 overall, or maybe a bit more, if average prices were lower due to smaller battery.
Logged

togo

  • It's like flying. But with more traction.
  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 1638
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #6 on: February 08, 2020, 03:31:42 AM »

Logged
our knowledge about Zeros collects here: https://zeromanual.com/

wavelet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #7 on: February 08, 2020, 07:55:13 AM »

related to this, maybe?
https://autowise.com/energica-us-prices/
That article is not trustworthy.
It states the battery warranty is 5 years, whereas acc. to Energica's website & people here it's 3 years / 31K mi.
It also mentions a New Hampshire dealership, Rocket Moto in Nashua, which appears not to have been an Energica dealer for a couple of years at least.
And the statement
Quote
What really makes the Energica a tempting option though is the OBD port – a universal diagnostics port that’s compatible with any motorcycle diagnostics software, allowing almost any mechanic with diagnostics technology to competently diagnose any problems and service your bike.
Is about as disingenuous as they come, to be polite.
Any mechanic? On a unique bike with a high-voltage traction system, where the service manual is considered secret and not obtainable by the general public?
Logged

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #8 on: February 08, 2020, 12:20:40 PM »

It does say 'almost any' and 'with the diagnostic software' which in theory means anyone could, but no one has the software.  It doesn't say anything about actually fixing it, either.

But it is plausible, even if that's not how it's working out so far.

-Crissa
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5

wavelet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #9 on: February 08, 2020, 01:09:34 PM »

It does say 'almost any' and 'with the diagnostic software' which in theory means anyone could, but no one has the software.  It doesn't say anything about actually fixing it, either.

But it is plausible, even if that's not how it's working out so far.

-Crissa
How so?
"almost any" implies that the vast majority of motorcycle mechanics could, which wouldn't hold -- I doubt any of the standard training courses for mechanics cover EV drivetrains and/or high-voltage electricity in any way.
A qualified, experienced ICE motorcycle mechanic can do virtually all work on an ICE bike without risking harm to him/herself even without the service manual -- they're mostly risking damage to the bike if they don't follow correct procedures. Not the case if they've never touched a bike with an HV system.

The article doesn't say "with the diagnostic software", it says "with any motorcycle diagnostics software" .

What does "service" in "competently diagnose any problems and service your bike" mean if not fix problems?

Sure, having an OBD-II port means there's a standardized HW interface to collect diagnostic info, but that's hardly enough to provide competent repair.

Mentioning OBD-II & Energica diagnostics is another instance of the author's laziness -- google yields a dozen articles written in Apr. 2017 mentioning that & quoting an Energica PR, as the port was new on MY2017 bikes, but no mention since.
Basically the author felt having a single new news item, the price reduction, was insufficient to justify an article, and grabbed & re-published a 2.5-y.o. article to fill in .

« Last Edit: February 08, 2020, 01:11:12 PM by wavelet »
Logged

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #10 on: February 08, 2020, 01:28:16 PM »

Why not?

They manage motors that get to a thousand degrees.  They have the tools.  All they really need more is the proper parts and the diagnostic software and diagnosis reference.  Just like any other bike.

Plausible, but not how it works so far.

And no, mechanics should not be messing with the engine computer settings without the proper software and diagnosis manual.  And there's nothing different about any of the other systems on a Energica - the brakes, shocks, wheels, tires, and even chain are just like on other bikes.

-Crissa
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5

wavelet

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 547
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #11 on: February 08, 2020, 02:16:54 PM »

Why not?

They manage motors that get to a thousand degrees.  They have the tools.  All they really need more is the proper parts and the diagnostic software and diagnosis reference.  Just like any other bike.

Plausible, but not how it works so far.

And no, mechanics should not be messing with the engine computer settings without the proper software and diagnosis manual.  And there's nothing different about any of the other systems on a Energica - the brakes, shocks, wheels, tires, and even chain are just like on other bikes.

-Crissa
Sure, there's nothing magic about EVs, as you say, the rest of the non-drivetrain subsystems/components aren't different for the most part from ICE (like EV cars vs. ICE); however, when disassembling stuff, the tech does need to know what special precautions to take that don't apply to ICE bikes.

I'm sure once e-motorcycles are common enough, the standard training courses by mechanics' schools like MMI
will cover them. They don't yet, AFAICS.
Until then, I expect the manufacturers are providing specific add-on training for already-experienced & certified techs.

Obviously anecdotal, but out of curiosity, I asked my ICE bike shop (they only maintain bikes, don't sell any) whether they'd be willing to work on an EV bike, if they had the service manual. The answer was absolutely not, beyond tire repair/mounting. They don't want the responsibility.

Incidentally, a kind soul (*) sent me an Energica service manual a few days ago. There's a bunch of EV-specific gear tool that are required to work on the bike, including insulated gloves & shoes that have to meet specific int'l standards,  insulated hand tools ditto, test leads & multimeters etc. that have to meet others and so on.

That pretty much exhausts what I have to say on the subject   :)

(*) anonymous because Energica regards it as confidential.
Logged

Crissa

  • Hero Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3144
  • Centauress
    • View Profile
Re: Off to a good start in 2020!
« Reply #12 on: February 08, 2020, 02:58:32 PM »

Well... As someone who has repaired high voltage things, it's the same rule about not touching battery terminals.

It's not really new, learning not to touch metal tabs.  The BMW guys seem to do fine.

-Crissa
Logged
2014 Zero S ZF8.5
Pages: [1]