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[valnar]

Agreed on the charging.  Zero really dropped the ball on all their models.  Any bike with a charging rate of .5C or less needs to be rethought.  I love my FXS, but it's super slow.

This spreadsheet I stole from another thread really illustrates that.
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1yWRS4EHtyGPexF4lcX4nlG5bTlSQ7Oh7tBTWL5zlbPo/edit#gid=0

[princec]

+1 on charging speed sentiments. CCS or bust.
Also... belt drive protection and upgrade

Cas

[enaef]

Regarding the charging options:
It has been discussed elsewhere in this forum in detail.
However:
With the rapid charger the charging nears 1C with AC.

Working in the health industry (nurse) I'm really no expert in such things. From what I've read so far I understand, that the change of the charging system is not a small step.  If that's true I therefore definitively have not expected that the SR/S would bring such fundamental changes. Why would Zero build a genuinely new type of bike in the region of the top end of the market (Sam Paschel compares the SR/F with Tesla) and in the next year change the fundamentals?

To quote from this article
https://www.motorcycle.com/manufacturer/zero/exclusive-2019-zero-sr-f-review-first-ride.html
"Now, some electro-cognizant readers will want to know why Zero didn’t include Level 3 Fast Charging. Zero’s reasoning was based on the current status of the charging infrastructure in the U.S. (and much of Europe) where 90% of the charging stations are Level 2. With Level 3 stations in their relative infancy, the decision was made to stick with Level 2 – but fast Level 2 – charging. Regarding the Level 3’s potential, Paschel says, “If you look in the future as Level 3 becomes more prominent, of course, we’re going to get our consumers the right solution.”

From that, my uninformed guess is, that if Zero survives the coming surge of new electric motorcycle producers (what I certainly hope!), Zero will come up with Level 3 DC at some point. One may guess, they are working on it already. Hopefully with the goal of the same five year warranty on the battery.

[NEW2elec]

The battery cells are 1C rated so the best you can "safely" do is one hour 0-100%.  The level 2 to CCS ratio in the US is true and when you find them they cost more than filling up with gas.
DC fast charging sounds good but for "now" a 12kw DOUBLE J (put it in there guys) charging option is about as good as you can get with these cells.

On a side note I'm curious as to the health of the battery of an often fast charged battery.  We'll see.

[Richard230]

The video remains up so I suppose that either Zero doesn't care about it or they are off on a three-day holiday and will deal with it when they return to work.  Of course, by then it will be way too late.   

I think the bike looks nice and I do like the riding position, although the motorcycle press might not as they likely expect to see clip-on bars and high foot pegs on a sport bike.

[enaef]

Of course, by then it will be way too late.   

The file is sitting on my harddrive already for 7 hours now ... 

[DonTom]

The battery cells are 1C rated so the best you can "safely" do is one hour 0-100%.  The level 2 to CCS ratio in the US is true and when you find them they cost more than filling up with gas.


On a side note I'm curious as to the health of the battery of an often fast charged battery.  We'll see.

Here is what my last CCS charge cost at a Harley shop:

Your receipt for charging

Receipt   RHD / DCFAST HOG   Reno, NV

Energy   
Energy added   
9.90 kWh
Station Parking   
3:11 PM-3:55 PM
44m 34s @ $0.00/hr   
$0.00
Total   $0.00


It is better to use slower charging for battery life.  The HD shops charge at the rate  of 15 KW, but my Energica can handle 26 KW charging.

Should only use faster CCS charging when really needed. But home charging is even better for battery life.

Home charging here in Reno costs 11.7 cents per KWH to charge my 11.7 KWH battery (Coincidence that both are 11.7) and the battery should last longer at such a 3 kW charge rate (or around 1.5 KW if charged with 120 VAC).


I assume Zero gives longer battery warranties than Energica because of their lack of fast charging capabilities.


By far, most of my charging is done at home, but when I need a charge on the road, I usually look for a faster charge.


-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

Want to wager on how long that lasts once they figure out people are charging their cars and other bikes?     

I'm going off the pay stations that are on line now of course.

[pacificcricket]

It is better to use slower charging for battery life.  The HD shops charge at the rate  of 15 KW, but my Energica can handle 26 KW charging.

Should only use faster CCS charging when really needed. But home charging is even better for battery life.

Are there any software features exposed on Energica to dictate how fast you want the pack charged ? I imagine the bike can control the amperage of the charger throughout the charge cycle.

[MVetter]

You can control the charge rate throughout for the Energica. The bike does an amp request to the station at its voltage range. The newest models cap out an 80 amp request between 280-330ish volts. Sometimes stations give a few more amps. There's a toggle switch you can dial it down if you have a reason to, as well as set the target SoC if you don't want to go to 100% for longer term storage or other reasons.

[pacificcricket]

You can control the charge rate throughout for the Energica. The bike does an amp request to the station at its voltage range. The newest models cap out an 80 amp request between 280-330ish volts. Sometimes stations give a few more amps. There's a toggle switch you can dial it down if you have a reason to, as well as set the target SoC if you don't want to go to 100% for longer term storage or other reasons.

Very nice!

[togo]

I think it's disappointing if they haven't done anything about the charging speed. I don't really see the point in a touring bike if charging takes 2 hours. I think Energica will outsell Zero because Energica offer DC charging and bigger battery packs.

12kW is a huge improvement over what they offered last year.

Unfortunately, to get that in North America, you have to dub-J or use (some) Tesla Destination Chargers, both of which might be dubious to offer as factory features.  Makes more sense for European Mennekes aka Type 2.

Also unfortunately, even LiveWire beats that charge rage, and Energica is 2.2X that and their new 19kWh Plus models arguably could go a bit higher (Energica raised charge rates with firmware updates last time around).

I will say, though, nobody beats Zero on battery warranty.

So unless you really need the touring function, Zero's the safer choice.  Most motorcyclists don't do that distance.

[MVetter]

What togo says is true. American motorcyclists as a whole put fewer than 3000 miles on their bikes a year. I've heard as low as 1000. On the other hand I've put 6500 miles on my Energica in 4 months. This is the kind of place you're going to find the outliers/freaks, though.

[Evilthor]

This is hopefully the faired version that was being talked about!

Here is a leaked video
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2020-zero-srs/

[wavelet]

This is hopefully the faired version that was being talked about!

Here is a leaked video
https://www.motorcyclenews.com/news/new-bikes/2020-zero-srs/

We've been discussing that video for over a day in this thread...