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[princec]

It's presumably more "agricultural" on bikes though, right, because we have direct braking rather than servo-assist? So in a car they'd measure braking force at the pedal with a transducer and apply different levels of regen, whereas a bike is very unlikely to rely on a trandsucer on account of the tradeoff between safety and unreliability*?

Cas

* that pressure transducers we work with seem to be particularly unreliable but then again they are exposed to 3000psi and exploded every 5 seconds so I may have a biased view on them...

[togo]

Braking regen is just literally "applying additional regen as soon as the brakes are detected" isn't it?

-Crissa

> > Braking regen is just literally "applying additional regen as soon as the brakes are detected" isn't it?

> Yes

Well, not quite. If you have throttle off regen set higher than brake regen you get no extra.

> But Teslas don't do it by default, for instance.

Um. Since I owned my Tesla, as soon as I touch brake pedal on model 3, the power bar goes far into regen.  Now that they have Hold mode (aka 1 pedal driving though that's misleading) letting off the throttle, the power bar shows regen occurring quite aggressively.  So that's clearly wrong.

This is the bar below the speedometer, goes right when motor torque is applied to accelerate, left when motor torque is applied to decelerate.

In 70,000 miles (mostly other people driving, see of.net/red3), I haven't had to change break pads yet.

[DonTom]

>

Um. Since I owned my Tesla, as soon as I touch brake pedal on model 3, the power bar goes far into regen.  Now that they have Hold mode (aka 1 pedal driving though that's misleading) letting off the throttle, the power bar shows regen occurring quite aggressively.  So that's clearly wrong.

And compare that to slowing down without touching the brake pedal. I notice NO difference in my 2018 Tesla Model 3 (LR, AWD). Unlike Zero motorcycles where there is a difference (very noticeable in eco mode by looking at the bars on the screen).

If you see a difference when braking compared to slowing down in a Tesla, I will have a few questions.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Crissa]

Togo, according to Tesla, the default is for regen to not react to your use of the brake pedal, but since brake cuts throttle on application of brake, I suppose it does?  But the brake pedal itself doesn't interact with the regen.

There are lots of user settings.  I'm just describing it as Tesla does in their description of how the brakes work:  The brakes, by default, just apply the brakes and cut the throttle.

I think like Zero, tho, the default action of the throttle is full regen when on the zero position, which would be like that.  Pushing a deactivated Zero with an empty battery is hard!

-Crissa

[togo]

>> Togo, according to Tesla, the default is for regen to not react to your use of the brake pedal, ...

Point me to that please.  I suspect that's the 1-pedal aka hold mode, add I think that's what Don's taking about. That's now the default. It was jarring at first, because I was used to seeing it for coast mode. But more I like it. Auto-steer/tacc is like coast mode when I want it.

[Crissa]

It was in their statement about unintended acceleration, togo.

-Crissa

[togo]

OK, yes, they apply strong regen when you release the accelerator pedal now.  "1-pedal" aka auto Hold is now the detail.  So brakes are just brakes.  You can probably get the old behavior if you really want it.

[DonTom]

I suspect that's the 1-pedal aka hold mode, add I think that's what Don's taking about. That's now the default. It was jarring at first, because I was used to seeing it for coast mode. But more I like it. Auto-steer/tacc is like coast mode when I want it.

Nope. AFAIK, only Zero  increases regen  when the brake light is activated. That is what I am talking about.

Doing such  would require an extra brake switch in a  Tesla or an Energica because the brake light comes on when these vehicles slow down even if the brake pedal or level is NOT touched all. These vehicles detect slowing down to activate the brake light.   Obvious safety reasons for that as regen can slow down a vehicle  very fast even when the brakes are not touched.   To the uniformed with a Tesla in front of them, they  probably think the Tesla is putting on the brakes on every curve. But the brakes (most likely) were never even  used.

With a Zero, the brake only comes on when you use use the brake pedal or front brake lever.   That means the brake light voltage  can easily be used to get  MORE EXTRA  REGEN while using the brakes than when costing to a stop.

I would normally  prefer to have very low deceleration regen and very high braking regen at the same time, as the way Zero does it, each can be adjusted separately  in the custom mode. Many Zero riders adjust their custom mode to a 0% deceleration regen and 100% braking regen for freeway use.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Crissa]

Tesla has a double sensor and not a mechanical linkage to the brakes, so it totally could be a software option to increase braking with regen.

Toyota and Honda hybrids did the same as Zero is doing, but it was controlled by their abs system, I think.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Tesla has a double sensor and not a mechanical linkage to the brakes, so it totally could be a software option to increase braking with regen.

Should I  assume you meant increase regen with braking?

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Crissa]

Should I  assume you meant increase regen with braking?

Yes, since the order of the words doesn't matter here.

-Crissa

[MVetter]

Doing such  would require an extra brake switch in a  Tesla or an Energica because the brake light comes on when these vehicles slow down even if the brake pedal or level is NOT touched all. These vehicles detect slowing down to activate the brake light.

Minor nitpick: Energica's brake light FLICKERS ONCE when regen is engaged. When brakes are applied the brake light will come on solid.

[togo]

> > I suspect that's the 1-pedal aka hold mode, ...

> Nope. AFAIK, only Zero  increases regen  when the brake light is activated....

Try the coasting mode on your Tesla, Don.

[DonTom]

> > I suspect that's the 1-pedal aka hold mode, ...

> Nope. AFAIK, only Zero  increases regen  when the brake light is activated....

Try the coasting mode on your Tesla, Don.

Okay, I will try that. Was that in a recent update? I just don't recall a coasting mode, unless you mean set the regen low, which I never tried.

I have not driven my Tesla for around a month or so. It just sits in the garage most of the time.  Usually by the time I drive it there is an update or two ready for me to download. I think I have around 2,000 miles on it total since 2018.

I ride my motorcycles the most and I also have several ICE cars that I often need to give some  exercise.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[ultrarnr]

MVetter, It may depend on what regen setting you have selected on the Energica. I have mine set on high and when I tested it I am positive the brake light stayed on.