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[Kappi]

Might as well revitalize this thread, because it's another year later.

I chatted up (email annoyed) my local State Farm agency and found some interesting information.

Because Electric Motorcycles have no known 'CC' their pre-underwritting formula for "gasoline engine equivalent" involves some multiplication. (I feel perhaps too much multiplication)

My 2020 LiveWire is insured as a 6,300 cubic centimeters 525 horsepower ICE motorcycle.
A 2020 Zero SR/F would solve out to 6,600cc

Interesting. Insurance for electric motorbikes over here (Germany) is based on the maximum sustainable power rating. In case of my 2017 SR that comes down to a motorbike with 22 kw, roughly putting it into the pool with a 250cc ice bike. Insurance premiums reflect that.

[Richard230]

Might as well revitalize this thread, because it's another year later.

I chatted up (email annoyed) my local State Farm agency and found some interesting information.

Because Electric Motorcycles have no known 'CC' their pre-underwritting formula for "gasoline engine equivalent" involves some multiplication. (I feel perhaps too much multiplication)

My 2020 LiveWire is insured as a 6,300 cubic centimeters 525 horsepower ICE motorcycle.
A 2020 Zero SR/F would solve out to 6,600cc

Interesting. Insurance for electric motorbikes over here (Germany) is based on the maximum sustainable power rating. In case of my 2017 SR that comes down to a motorbike with 22 kw, roughly putting it into the pool with a 250cc ice bike. Insurance premiums reflect that.

I suspect that EV insurance premiums in the U.S. are based more upon the liability fear of the company underwriters, which are likely based upon news media reports of EV accidents and fires. That plus,insurance company competition comparing the average premiums of other companies in the industry and then trying to pick and choose who they should insure and what they should charge to make the most profit from their customers.   

[domingo3]

I paid $75 for comprehensive coverage on my 2018 FXS.  I actually would go with liability only, but they said it was the same price to add comprehensive.  I'll definitely keep an eye out for changes when the policy renews.  I agree the 5x HP calculation by State Farm is ridiculous.  By that formula, the little FXS would be 230 HP., but makes less torque than the 115 HP MT-09.  To compare the SR/F, a Triumph Rocket III produces more torque with just 148 HP, not anywhere near 550 HP.  Have you tried this argument?

[Nadrol]

I just looked into insuring my 2015 S. For state minimum liability (25/50/25) and 1k medical:
Progressive: 119/yr
Geico: 215/yr
Statefarm: 89.18/yr

I'm 25 and live in middle of nowhere South Dakota. No violations on record.

FYI Statefarm told me they considered it a 800cc bike, so they have seemed to have fixed their ridiculous 5x HP calculation.

[Crissa]

An S is a 250 at best, it is no 800cc bike x-x

(I have an 800cc Ducati to compare it to, my spouse's!)

-Crissa

[Richard230]

An S is a 250 at best, it is no 800cc bike x-x

(I have an 800cc Ducati to compare it to, my spouse's!)

-Crissa

In my opinion my S has very similar performance and top speed to my KTM 390 Duke, although there is no question that you would have to stir the KTM's gearbox a lot to keep up with a Zero.   

[TheRan]

An S will out accelerate pretty much any A2 class bike, so that includes stuff like the Duke/RC390, MT/R-3, Ninja 300. Even the quickest 250 (excluding the old inline 4s and two strokes) is going to be a couple seconds slower to 60.

[Crissa]

Just because an EV is quick doesn't make it more powerful. Or more risky; not like you have to work the gearbox to remain safe in traffic or curves or if someone cuts you off,

-Crissa

[TheRan]

No one is saying it is. The whole idea of basing insurance costs off engine capacity makes no sense to begin with, for example a W800 is no where near as fast as an R6 and an R6 would destroy a Harley with over twice the displacement, but if that's how it is and an equivalent needs be made for an electric bike then it should be based off performance (because they make the false assumption that higher displacement = higher performance = greater risk of an accident).

[Richard230]

No one is saying it is. The whole idea of basing insurance costs off engine capacity makes no sense to begin with, for example a W800 is no where near as fast as an R6 and an R6 would destroy a Harley with over twice the displacement, but if that's how it is and an equivalent needs be made for an electric bike then it should be based off performance (because they make the false assumption that higher displacement = higher performance = greater risk of an accident).

It would make more sense if they based their insurance premiums upon actual claims for the specific motorcycles being insured - or better yet on the driving and accident record of the rider. But no doubt that is too much trouble for the underwriters to do. It is much easier for them to pick an engine displacement out of thin air and create a premium from that.  As I have mentioned before when I insured my first electric motorcycle 12 years ago with Progressive they gave it a 1cc displacement and charged me $5 for the year. 

[princec]

Here in the UK they assess it based on a whole bunch of factors, and outright power isn't given a particularly high loading as it's been shown to not actually be a significant factor in the vast majority of claims. It's stuff like expensive replacement parts and labour, and stealability, that make premiums high here, which is why Zeros are priced like the latest litre sports bikes

Cas

[Richard230]

Here in the UK they assess it based on a whole bunch of factors, and outright power isn't given a particularly high loading as it's been shown to not actually be a significant factor in the vast majority of claims. It's stuff like expensive replacement parts and labour, and stealability, that make premiums high here, which is why Zeros are priced like the latest litre sports bikes

Cas

But on the other hand, aren't Zero plastic parts a lot cheaper than similar parts on the latest liter bikes? While Zero's may need to be replaced if a rider center-punches a lorry, the usual tip-over shouldn't cause as much damage and fairing parts should be cheap and easy to repair, compared with both Japanese and European motorcycles.  Perhaps insurance underwriters have been watching too many of those YouTube and TV news reports showing EVs catching on fire when charging and when crashing into other vehicles when on "auto pilot" and are more concern about their third-party liability exposure? 

[princec]

Almost nobody claims for minor prangs here because a) we usually have excesses, er, in excess of £500 so it's almost never worth it, and b) you lose your coveted no-claims discount in short order which is worth as much again over a couple of years. Which means they're left just looking at the near-or-total-writeoff costs, and Zeros are literally twice as expensive as the typical competition in the market for their performance. So you pay 1000cc premiums on 600cc performance. Pain in the arse. As for the insane premiums I've been quoted for the FXS I just have nop idea how they're coming up with the same figure as the SR/F unless it really is that much more of a liability.

Cas

[TheRan]

What sort of numbers are you getting? I looked back in the UK Insurance thread and saw that you're 47 with over 15 years NCB and 30 years experience, with those sort of stats I'm really surprised if they're giving you ridiculous quotes. As I posted in the other thread, my DS is cheaper to insure than my 125 that was valued at less than half what the Zero cost with just the addition of 2 years experience, NCB, and going from age 27 to 29 (and still on a provisional licence).

[princec]

Yep, I'm like, the perfect customer. 47, clean license, 30 years riding, 15 years+ NCB, own house, married + 2 kids, boring job in IT, have car, live in the quiet countryside of Somerset, do about 5000 miles a year these days on the bikes. Last quotes I got from Lexham for the SR/F - month ago maybe? - was £381.89, and an FX/S was £392.36 (!!???). I pay £180 for the X-Adv, £70 for the 690 Duke R. It wipes out any potential gains from not burning petrol, road tax, or servicing, and then some. It's a farce. If those are the quotes I'm getting what is anyone else getting and how could anyone justify paying it?

Cas