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[flar]

Low speed maneuvers are 90% the rider and only 10% the bike.

This video is pretty good evidence of this:


A lot of it is committing to the turn and looking where you want to go (I've learned that lesson the hard way) and not being afraid to lean at low speeds.
A lot of not being afraid to lean at low speeds is throttle (accelerator) control.
Electric motors can easily provide much better accelerator control, but can still suffer from things like slack in the linkage and drivetrain.
Energica has really excellent linkage and a very predictable "throttle map" if I remember correctly from my 2 test rides a few year back.
Energica also has the low speed mode which amplifies the natural abilities of the electric motor to provide predictable control.

[Crissa]

...Which really doesn't say that a heavy bike is a good idea if they take so much skill and muscle to operate.

-Crissa

[Sklith]

I love my Ego's reverse feature, it makes parking in my garage backwards uphill possible regardless of the weight.

As for slow speed maneuvering, that's almost never dependent on the weight of the bike. You have to keep the center of gravity linear above the wheels. Get practicing on full lock turns, lean against the direction of the turn, and you'll find yourself turning around sharper than anything else on the road, even on a half-ton bike.

[BigPoppa]

I agree with most of the recent postings. Maneuvering a heavy bike at slow speeds is much more about technique than muscle. In fact, if you're using muscles to maneuver a big/heavy bike at slow speeds you're doing it wrong.

[flar]

...Which really doesn't say that a heavy bike is a good idea if they take so much skill and muscle to operate.

-Crissa

No bike takes muscle to operate at low speeds, just the proper technique. Riding technique requires no more than finger pressure, not muscle.

All bikes take the same amount of skill to operate at low speeds regardless of weight.

Where they differ is if you make a mistake - there are some situations you can muscle your way out of if the bike is light enough for your muscle mass. But, that only happens when the techniques fail you and their success is irrespective of weight.

They also differ in fear factor because the brain is very easily distracted by the "what if"s.

[Crissa]

So, to repeat, you say it takes technique.

Technique is skill.

You say not having the technique is not compounded by the weight?

Uh-huh.

I'm bowing out after pointing out the absurdity of that position.  If I make a mistake on my bike, yeah, it's heavy, but I can catch it.  If I make the same mistake on a heavier bike, it's going to be a multiple worse to recover from that mistake.

-Crissa

[jbtx]

Thanks for the endorsement course reminders   
I understand that with enough technique any weight is possible in tight urban settings.
But I think you really have to love the look and build spec of the energica to ride a 600lb naked style in that setting. I landed on the zero sr/f standard and put in my order yesterday.

If energica ever makes a bike in the 400s with a bit less power and range, smaller lighter battery configuration I’d spend a lot of money on it.

I genuinely was on the fence when I posted, thanks again for the insights

[flar]

So, to repeat, you say it takes technique.

Technique is skill.

You say not having the technique is not compounded by the weight?

Uh-huh.

I'm bowing out after pointing out the absurdity of that position.  If I make a mistake on my bike, yeah, it's heavy, but I can catch it.  If I make the same mistake on a heavier bike, it's going to be a multiple worse to recover from that mistake.

-Crissa

Most riders haven't learned proper low speed techniques.

The mistakes those riders make can be "managed" by muscling through if the bike is light enough. I think we are in agreement there and I said so above.

But, "managing by muscling through" is going to fail any rider eventually so learning proper low speed techniques is an important skill to learn (though neglected by 95+% of riders).

Proper low speed maneuvering doesn't require lots of muscle or talent. It might seem so because riding on the street doesn't teach these techniques at all and so someone who is really good on the street but still has to wobble through a parking lot might think that it requires high talent. No, it requires some focused learning.

I don't know if the beginner rider courses teach much of this, but I do remember spending some time learning these skills in parking lots when I took some post-license-level safety classes. They teach the technique pretty well, but you do need some additional practice on your own to really dial them in. And it's something most riders can manage. (And it requires periodic practice as well.)

Once you learn this skill that will help you with lighter bikes, heavier bikes aren't any additional burden. That's what I was getting at.

But, if you don't learn and get good at these skills, then you will need more muscle to correct your wobbles with heavier bikes.

[DonTom]

But, if you don't learn and get good at these skills, then you will need more muscle to correct your wobbles with heavier bikes.

Yep, but in time, is should come naturally simply by riding heavy bikes and getting used to them, as I have.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[BigPoppa]

Thanks for the endorsement course reminders   
I understand that with enough technique any weight is possible in tight urban settings.
But I think you really have to love the look and build spec of the energica to ride a 600lb naked style in that setting. I landed on the zero sr/f standard and put in my order yesterday.

If energica ever makes a bike in the 400s with a bit less power and range, smaller lighter battery configuration I’d spend a lot of money on it.

I genuinely was on the fence when I posted, thanks again for the insights

Glad you found the right bike for you! I think you’ll have a lot of happy miles on the SR/F. It’s a great machine!

[DonTom]

Thanks for the endorsement course reminders   
I understand that with enough technique any weight is possible in tight urban settings.
But I think you really have to love the look and build spec of the energica to ride a 600lb naked style in that setting. I landed on the zero sr/f standard and put in my order yesterday.

If energica ever makes a bike in the 400s with a bit less power and range, smaller lighter battery configuration I’d spend a lot of money on it.

I genuinely was on the fence when I posted, thanks again for the insights

Have you tried out the smaller Zeros? You can get all you're asking for with the less range, lighter battery and less power-- and will cost much less than the SR/F.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[NEW2elec]

He posted on the Zero thread he's owned smaller Zeros already.  He going for the gusto.

[flar]

But, if you don't learn and get good at these skills, then you will need more muscle to correct your wobbles with heavier bikes.

Yep, but in time, is should come naturally simply by riding heavy bikes and getting used to them, as I have.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

I apologize for straying too far off topic here, but I'd just like to point out that street riding does not teach the skills that are specific to low speed riding. In particular, some of the skills you perform at low speeds that are necessary for stability at low speeds would lead to an accident at road speeds. It really is a different set of skills and there are plenty of articles out there that go over them.

That's the last I'll say on this particular topic. The information is out there for those who wish to learn.