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[Fran K]

Well I look at Rivian and see almost the exact same situation.
They had been in stealth mode for years and they came out with a 180kWh 400 mile range, very nice electric truck.
The EV tech has grown enough to where companies aren't starting from scratch and t......r.  They talked about the top speed was doable because Lightning did it.  The battery capacity is doable because Energica has done it.
The AI and warning system is backed by Blackberry. 
I mean all the parts are out there it's just a matter of putting them together in one solid package.
Not easy but again all the parts are out there, they don't have to invent them from scratch.

Lightning record is in steam and electric semi streamliner class.  At least the runs in California.

My F150 is limited to 95 mph.  Do you really think the Damon dot version will go 200?

Ford has bought into Rivian from what I have read.  Is it a truck?

[NEW2elec]

Ok so yes Lightning's speed run was in an aero pod.

Your Ford F150 doesn't have much to do with this so I guess your asking if the DOT will approve a bike that goes 200MPH.
The answer to that is yes.
The1999 Hayabusa went 194MPH stock.

And yes Rivian is a truck and SUV.

[irdezcam]

Iridezcam, I went back and tried to compare the specs of both models.

The high end bike is listed as having liquid cooled battery and the HS is not.  That could be where a weight difference comes from.
The HS may not come with DC charging so no battery cooling needed.
There could be type-os in the specs or a factor that we aren't seeing.

Morgan, I like you.  Maybe not so much at first but you've grown on me.  You seem like your very into the whole motorcycle world and your trying to help the EV world along.  I think sometimes your frustration may get the better of you because turning a hundred year tradition on it's head gets met with resistance.

Damon might fail.  They might go out like Mission or get going and die off like Alta or fall short of promises like Lightning (hopefully not as bad) but all of those things could happen.

A YT search will show video closeups of the bike.  It's a fully built bike not held together with wires and glue.  Does it have a 200HP motor and a 21kWh battery in it at CES, well maybe not, but it does function.
There are clips of bikes riding on the street and a few post test ride clips.
So there is at least a couple working bikes that they have.   

I do get your advise that someone wanting an electric motorcycle shouldn't feel like they have to sit on the sidelines waiting for something that may never come.  There are very good bikes from Zero Energica and Harley (and others) right now.  I encourage anyone to go test ride some and see if they work for them.  If they do, pick one up and start riding.

But this HS bike is just too amazing on paper and temping from the real bike I've seen so far to just brush it off as pure fantasy.

Yeah, I’ve also compared the HS and the Premier and the specs are not exactly the same in both models, and maybe both models are under 440 lb, but that doesn’t mean their weight is exactly the same. The specs are a little vague on this point, that’s true.

I’ve watched to every video I’ve found on the internet, every interview, I’ve also talked to them a few times and so far, they seem legit. Maybe they’re trying to accomplish to much at once, but as you’ve said: that kind of battery is already out there, the technology is out there (blackberry qnx), they’ve already worked in v2h technology before, they have the Mission and Alta motor experience and powertrain. It seems a matter of being able to putting it all together in the most efficient way. Not that it is an easy task to achieve, of course.

These undoubtedly are exciting times and I’m rooting for them. I hope they aren’t another lightning, or Skully or many others. I really hope they can deliver what they promise.

As I’ve already said, I can’t wait to watch to some pro test ride reviews. I can’t wait to watch their motorcycle on track. I can’t wait for them to come to Europe in hopes that they’d also perform some test rides around here 

[MVetter]

You can't just say, "oh well the battery size is possible because Energica did it and the speed is possible because Lightning did it" etc. Each bike has pluses and minuses, pros and cons. Zero bikes are lightweight but charge very slowly. Energicas have large batteries and fast charging and liquid cooling but they're heavy. They're 600 lbs. Lightning went over 200 on a prototype bike that literally sacrifices every possible safety feature. You can't simply just take the best of every feature and add a cherry on top without some sacrifice.

In the Marvel universe it's like all the vampires looking at Blade and saying, "he has all of our strengths... and none of our weaknesses"

[Sklith]

No way in heck this bike weight's around 440 lbs with those specs.

[wavelet]

No way in heck this bike weight's around 440 lbs with those specs.

That my opinion as well.
I was sure this was a typo, so specifically asked the CEO about this (a while back, around the time of their CES exposure in Jan. this year), and he affirmed the number ("under 200 kg"), and that it included all the features (full fairing, the Situational Awareness system & adjustable ergonomics), adding that he wouldn't disclose how they got it that low. 

Notably, they have multiple sensors (multiple cameras for 360 degrees, radar and a third undisclosed type) , and the adjustable ergonomics clearly require multiple hefty DC motors (they need to shift a rider's weight around) -- all that has to add non-negligible weight  as well, ditto whatever computer does the threat processing (which would require serious cooling, as it need to function in hot weather).

[princec]

I see lots of daft ideas being thrown about with the Damon solving problems we don't have with electric motorcycles. These are the sorts of red herrings that get in the way of making an actual good motorcycle. All that AI stuff, 1080p mirrors, etc - useless, expensive.

Cas

[Richard230]

I see lots of daft ideas being thrown about with the Damon solving problems we don't have with electric motorcycles. These are the sorts of red herrings that get in the way of making an actual good motorcycle. All that AI stuff, 1080p mirrors, etc - useless, expensive.

Cas

+1   

[NEW2elec]

Morgan, no it's like Tony Stark looking at Thanos and just saying "I'm Iron Man" and snap everything is great.  LOL
Damon has all the Infinity Stones and they're placing them in the Hypersport Gauntlet.     

You know the main reason Energica is so heavy.  I would say Damon isn't going with a steel battery case.
In fact the triangles on the sides of the Hypersport look a lot like the old Brammo setup.

I see no passenger seat on the HS so likely very little frame structure past the rider seat. (like the Strike)

Liquid cooling: How much liquid?  If you have the air channeled in such a way that it increases the volume of air passing over the cooling coils you don't need as much liquid to circulate.

I can only speculate of course on what type of battery tech they're using so I won't here.

I will use the Tesla Roadster II as an example though.  When it was revealed the specs blew everything away that Tesla had done to that point.  Musk had said the Model 3 would never get a 100 kWh battery because there wasn't room.  Then he says the little roadster will have a 200kWh battery, and a range of 600 miles.  Then they did neck snapping 0-60 runs for a lot of riders with no issues with over heating.  A model S can't do that.  It will over heat.  So what is different?  Here's a hint: battery type and setup.

And guys as for cameras and processors haven't you seen smartphones lately?  They are nothing.  My phone has 4 cameras in the space of a quarter and the battery takes up most of the interior space of the phone.

Now is it all needed?  Well were airbags needed?  They showed that they helped in some crashes and now you HAVE to have them.  Same with ABS and soon traction control.  Insurance companies don't like paying out for dead people so they make sure laws keep that to a minimum regardless of the cost to make.  Money>caring.  If they show copilot helps prevent even some crashes then watch, all bikes will have to have it.
I would be concerned it will give  off a lot of fales positives but we'll see.

[TheRan]

You can make up all the excuses you want, but when a 18kW/h Zero SR weighs 210kg the Damon with all that extra stuff isn't going to weigh under 200kg.

[NEW2elec]

Ok easy there, I'm doing this to have fun and discuss what I see as the most exciting and interesting motorcycle project that is out there.  It's not my company so I don't make any excuses for anything.

I'm pointing out some "reasons" that this can work and examples of times when some people's reason for skepticism were proven wrong.
Rivian "seemed" to burst on the scene but had been working in stealth mode for years.
Tesla Roadster II blows away all "known" EV specs, even Tesla's own specs.

Energica went from a 13kWh battery to a 21kWh battery AND lost some weight.  That's just crazy talk right?  Then you hear how much they decreased the thickness and weight of their battery box and then it makes sense.

If you added a Zero 7.2 brick (as it is now) to a 14.4 unit the bike would weigh over 500lbs.  But if they went with a different battery cell setup that didn't use potting then it might be less.

I just watched a video of a Rolls Royce conversion to a full Tesla drive train and operating system.  Three guys who are a whole lot smarter than me met each one of the "but that can't be done" road blocks with a "watch me" attitude.  Connected the car to a private server not to Tesla HQ and bypassed other limits with their own mother board unit (open sourced it by the way).

Where there is a will, smart people, and lots of money anything is possible. 

[DonTom]

Energica went from a 13kWh battery to a 21kWh battery AND lost some weight. 

And they also lost some MPH of Charge at freeway speeds.  Charge twice (200%) as long to get 40% more range on the freeway than on the 13 KWH battery. That is by their own specs.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

My first thought is to ignore the Energica comment there Don because this is a Damon thread.  I only brought up Energica as an example of how on the surface it looked like something couldn't be done but when you dig deeper you see how they did it.

But here goes.  Yes, your right that is what Energica says their new bike's charge rate is.
It may stay that way from now.  In which case someone will have to choose if they would rather go farther and charge up slower or go shorter and charge quicker.

My guess is their engineers are playing it very safe with the new battery setup.  After they get plenty of real world battery life data, as long as it's holding up well, they will increase the charge speed.

I think yours covers your needs well and the guys with the new bikes will report how theirs are working out I'm sure.

Edit:
So there was a charging time question on Damon's web page and wow the answer sounds familiar. 

The question was:  What is my Hypersport’s charge time?
And Damon rep Meygan Ngo responded:
Charge time is just under 3 hours with the integrated J1772 Level 2.

With the CCS (DC fast charge/ combined charging system) charge time to 80% is around 45 minutes.

Since most riders will not be starting from a completely depleted pack, in practice, charge times will be less. Faster charge times may be possible in the future after we complete long term cell life studies and Damon would simply implement OTA software, unlocking this new capability directly to your Hypersport.
End quote.

Am I learning all about this EV stuff or what?   

[DonTom]

Am I learning all about this EV stuff or what?   

It's about time for you to change your username to "OLD2elec".

I agree 99.9% with all of that last message. It's exactly what I think is going on as well. Perhaps we will find out when they release their 2022 models. . .

The other .1% is about what fits my needs. What would fit my needs with my Energica is a CCS charge station every 50 miles no matter which direction I go. I would take that over the bike's range any day.

And the way things are going, I could still be alive (and still riding)to see it happen!

Seeing that  they recently added two J1772 charge station in MarkLeeVille, CA gives me hope that more will be added away from the others that are all grouped together in busy areas as more new buildings go up.


-Don- Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

Ok man does this guy do a lot of interviews.  From the YT channel called: Electric Bike Action Magazine, which is one I haven't heard of and I guess they mainly focus on E bikes and not motorcycles.

Here Jay talks about their approach of high end first and how the direct to consumer model that Tesla uses allow for a high profit margin and puts more money in R&D.