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[Crissa]

Do we need to crowdfund our favorite reviewer?

-Crissa

[MVetter]

I read the test-ride thing as, "applications for test riding will be accepted in a few weeks" with no ETA on actual bikes at all. Is that not how you're reading it?

I see them claiming numbers like 200 horsepower, 21.5kWh battery back, 6.6kW AC charging (as well as DC of course) as indicators of having components that are, by necessity, kinda heavy. A motor that big will be heavy. And likely need liquid cooling like Energica. Probably the inverter, too, which will also be heavy. A battery that large *is* heavy. And then they say it weighs under 440 lbs? Their marketing game is phenomenal. Can't argue that. Just red flags everywhere else. The bike is not only promising the sun and the moon, but all the stars as well.

[NEW2elec]

Crissa, if there is any crowd funding then just buy me the bike and I'll talk about it a lot. 


I kind of view them as in Beta.  Some tweaking based on feedback and if some features aren't met with enthusiasm then they might go by the way side for cost savings and such.

In 2015 if someone would have given you the 2020 Energica Ego+ stats based on what we had at the time wouldn't you have been skeptical of them?  But they did it.

Somebody is going to make a big jump forward with the whole EV packaging and it might be Damon and really other then high goals I haven't caught them in any untruths at this point so until I do I'll cheer them on.

[Crissa]

Well, it's a bigger crowd required to buy a motorcycle than to fly someone somewhere

-Crissa

[MVetter]

In 2015 if someone would have given you the 2020 Energica Ego+ stats based on what we had at the time wouldn't you have been skeptical of them?  But they did it.

Somebody is going to make a big jump forward with the whole EV packaging and it might be Damon and really other then high goals I haven't caught them in any untruths at this point so until I do I'll cheer them on.

All of these things take time. The 21.5kWh Energica pack has been in development for 6 years. The LiveWire took like 8 years. None of the technologies Damon is promising are revolutionary, but putting them all in a package that weighs less, goes faster, and has more power than everyone else in ~1 year? As their first venture?

[shayan]

Is it just me or does anyone else not see any mention of DCFC on their website? Does this potentially mean that the battery pack has no active cooling? This could contribute to a good chunk of the "low" 440 lbs weight. Even if this is dry weight, it is amazingly just about the weight of a zero SR + PT!

[wavelet]

Is it just me or does anyone else not see any mention of DCFC on their website? Does this potentially mean that the battery pack has no active cooling? This could contribute to a good chunk of the "low" 440 lbs weight. Even if this is dry weight, it is amazingly just about the weight of a zero SR + PT!

They most definitely had CCS DCFC in their website specs, tho' it seems to have disappeared with the migration from the damonxlabs.com domain to damon.com ; it's still there, buried in the Help section of the site:

Does my Hypersport support fast charging?

Written by Meygan Ngo
Updated over a week ago

Charge time is just under 3 hours with the integrated J1772 Level 2.

With the CCS (DC fast charge/ combined charging system) charge time to 80% is around 45 minutes.

Since most riders will not be starting from a completely depleted pack, in practice, charge times will be less. Faster charge times may be possible in the future after we complete long term cell life studies and Damon would simply implement OTA software, unlocking this new capability directly to your Hypersport.

0-80% charging of a 21.5kWh pack translates into 17.2kWh in 45min, or an avarage rate of ~23kW . We'll see what's actually possible.

I also find it hard to believe that a bike that does their claimed performance or 200mph top speed  can manage without liquid battery cooling;
The Energica Ego+ has a same-capacity pack, with only air cooling for the battery (tho' oil-cooling for the motor) and still weighs 250kg (possibly slightly more).

[stevenh]

The Premier version shows liquid cooling on both the Battery and Motor, the standard one only on the Motor.  Same curb weight on both?  I really like the idea of "Shift".

Steve

[wavelet]

The Premier version shows liquid cooling on both the Battery and Motor, the standard one only on the Motor.  Same curb weight on both?  I really like the idea of "Shift".

Steve

Huh, you're right. I don't think that was there in the previous website -- the impression was you got better non-drivetrain components only (Öhlins etc.)

At any rate, that decidedly looks odd. I'd maybe expect the Premier version to have an upgraded motor (or upgraded cooling for the motor) to allow higher performance, but not a difference w.r.t. battery TMS: That's a lot of extra testing needed.

[irdezcam]

Yeah I thought about it later they may not be traveling with them but we'll see.

The stage of prototype seems to be at the level where they are letting the public test ride them.

That's the level that Lightning never hit. 

I think this bike is closer to ready then maybe you think.

I really hope you’re right and they’re close to have their bike ready.

Looking forward to reviews from beta testers of the Hypersport.

What I don’t fully understand is how the HS model and the Premier model are going to weigh the same, when the premier model has some premium parts like a single-sided Carbon fiber swingarm, that should weigh way less than the standard swingarm of the HS model.

[MVetter]

((((((because they're not real))))))

[NEW2elec]

Iridezcam, I went back and tried to compare the specs of both models.

The high end bike is listed as having liquid cooled battery and the HS is not.  That could be where a weight difference comes from.
The HS may not come with DC charging so no battery cooling needed.
There could be type-os in the specs or a factor that we aren't seeing.

Morgan, I like you.  Maybe not so much at first but you've grown on me.  You seem like your very into the whole motorcycle world and your trying to help the EV world along.  I think sometimes your frustration may get the better of you because turning a hundred year tradition on it's head gets met with resistance.

Damon might fail.  They might go out like Mission or get going and die off like Alta or fall short of promises like Lightning (hopefully not as bad) but all of those things could happen.

A YT search will show video closeups of the bike.  It's a fully built bike not held together with wires and glue.  Does it have a 200HP motor and a 21kWh battery in it at CES, well maybe not, but it does function.
There are clips of bikes riding on the street and a few post test ride clips.
So there is at least a couple working bikes that they have.   

I do get your advise that someone wanting an electric motorcycle shouldn't feel like they have to sit on the sidelines waiting for something that may never come.  There are very good bikes from Zero Energica and Harley (and others) right now.  I encourage anyone to go test ride some and see if they work for them.  If they do, pick one up and start riding.

But this HS bike is just too amazing on paper and temping from the real bike I've seen so far to just brush it off as pure fantasy.

[TheRan]

But this HS bike is just too amazing on paper and temping from the real bike I've seen so far to just brush it off as pure fantasy.

The point is that it seems too amazing to be real, and until they can actually demonstrate the things they say it can achieve any specs given should be taken with scepticism, just think of them as goals.

As for the weight of the bikes, perhaps I'm missing something but the spec sheet on their site just says under 440lbs for both bikes. Nothing about them being the same weight. And with how vague the specs are and how "beta" the whole thing seems it's not unreasonable to assume that perhaps they just missed out the liquid cooling on the HS battery.

[NEW2elec]

Well I look at Rivian and see almost the exact same situation.
They had been in stealth mode for years and they came out with a 180kWh 400 mile range, very nice electric truck.
The EV tech has grown enough to where companies aren't starting from scratch and trying to invent the wheel.

Damon has a founder of Alta on the team.  Jay (CEO) said in an interview he worked with the military on EV to grid-base-home power transfer.  They talked about the top speed was doable because Lightning did it.  The battery capacity is doable because Energica has done it.
The AI and warning system is backed by Blackberry. 
I mean all the parts are out there it's just a matter of putting them together in one solid package.
Not easy but again all the parts are out there, they don't have to invent them from scratch.

[Richard230]

Those specifications are starting to remind me of Lightning.    Too good to be true with the current consumer technology, unless they have access to some very expensive one-off stuff.