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[Crissa]

Neither of these sources are good, but they say 200-mph, 200-mi range, and collision alert software.

Damon is apparently out of Canada.

Businesswire

Forbes

PS: This time it posted when I pressed enter while typing.  C'mon, browser, work with me.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The fine print is on their website: https://damonxlabs.com/

Configurations are base on USA specfications. 200+ range is estimated using the SAE J2982 "on highway electric motorcycle range standard" and references a mix of highway and urban cycle. Straight 70mph highway range is ~161 miles. Straight 60mph highway range is estimated at 201 miles. Global specifications will be issued at a later date.

Charge time is listed as "< 3 hrs @ Level 2" which implies perhaps 18kWh of capacity.

YMMV, of course.

[Doug S]

I thought I saw mention of a 20 kWh pack in one of the articles...and it's not big enough to hide much more than that. Snot gonna get 200 miles of freeway range without an EXTREMELY efficient fairing. It's not even as big as the Energica battery.

[wavelet]

The fine print is on their website: https://damonxlabs.com/

Configurations are base on USA specfications. 200+ range is estimated using the SAE J2982 "on highway electric motorcycle range standard" and references a mix of highway and urban cycle. Straight 70mph highway range is ~161 miles. Straight 60mph highway range is estimated at 201 miles. Global specifications will be issued at a later date.

Charge time is listed as "< 3 hrs @ Level 2" which implies perhaps 18kWh of capacity.

YMMV, of course.

Interesting. Your battery capacity estimate sounds about right -- the Forbes article specifically says "liquid-cooled 20kWh battery pack", but it also says 700V, which is Porsche Taycan territory.

I think I read a short article about their situational awareness system a while back, but their plans for a production bike were still vague. The bike specs seem ambitious; 160mi @ 70mph is ICE bike territory.
That said, letting journalists ride early prototypes is encouraging.
With that size pack, the sensors & cameras, and whatever extra servos they need for the adjustable ergonomics, I wonder what the curb weight will be.
The price is the other interesting point -- quoting one more than a year before before deliveries implies the HW is pretty much finalized. $25K without the premium suspension/brakes/carbon fiber sounds reasonable if the situational awareness is actually worthwhile.
Looking forward to see how they progress.

[SBK74]

Performance Specs
Power: >200hp (150kW motor)
Energy: 21.5 kWh
Range: >200 miles hwy, >300 city

0-60 under 3 seconds
0-100 under 4 seconds

Integrated level 2 charger (7 kw)
DC fast charging > 25kW



This is listed in the reservation area, it's not in de data on the main site.

[wavelet]

Performance Specs
Power: >200hp (150kW motor)
Energy: 21.5 kWh
Range: >200 miles hwy, >300 city

0-60 under 3 seconds
0-100 under 4 seconds

Integrated level 2 charger (7 kw)
DC fast charging > 25kW



This is listed in the reservation area, it's not in de data on the main site.

Most of the specs you mention above are on the main site; the battery capacity (slightly higher than the Forbes articles says, maybe it's a nominal/usable difference?) and the DC charging are new, however I'm not seeing them in the reservation area, unless they appear only after one provides CC info, which I'm not willing to do

25kW DC is also very encouraging (presumably CCS); the big missing item is still curb weight.

There's no mention of  significant practical aspects, which they'll have to have for series production & sales: Dealer/parts network, warranty etc.
I'm sure they haven't ironed those out yet, which is absolutely  fine for the stage they're at, but given that
it's IMO premature to take deposits (wouldn't even be legal in my jurisdiction, for a non-homologated vehicle);
any money you give a startup that isn't in escrow isn't necessarily refundable in practical terms, and probably not in legal terms either.

[ESokoloff]

Good to see that Black Berry has survived via diversification.

The AI aspect is a double edged sword.
On one hand it will make users safer but on the other hand it's likely to make users dependent on the technology (especially inexperienced ones).
But the future is not the past & systems like these likely will be the norm or even mandated. 

[Richard230]

I am not holding my breath for this one to arrive on the consumer market any time soon.  It sounds more like a technology demonstrator to me that is trolling for investors. One more prototype electric motorcycle with somewhat unbelievable performance claims.  I bet Lightning beats them to the market.   

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I found some interesting quotes regarding the price etc. via https://www.webbikeworld.com/damon-motorcycles-hypersport-pro-electric-superbike-revealed-at-ces/

First, they're directly dealing with the customers, so some of the cost overhead that would have gone to dealers is cut that way:

Giraud said Damon is able to offer the price on its motorcycle even with the better performance and new Shift and CoPilot system due to the direct to consumer business model. The company will operate without dealerships. This dramatically cuts down on cost and allows the company to put out its product much easier than many of the big names out there.

Then, more directly, "The battery is 60 percent of the cost of the bike.":

“They have to add a profit margin for the distributors and a profit margin for the dealers to then sell it to the consumer,” he said. “When you do that, you have to make the battery smaller. The battery is 60 percent of the cost of the bike.”

[wavelet]

I found some interesting quotes regarding the price etc. via https://www.webbikeworld.com/damon-motorcycles-hypersport-pro-electric-superbike-revealed-at-ces/

First, they're directly dealing with the customers, so some of the cost overhead that would have gone to dealers is cut that way:

Giraud said Damon is able to offer the price on its motorcycle even with the better performance and new Shift and CoPilot system due to the direct to consumer business model. The company will operate without dealerships. This dramatically cuts down on cost and allows the company to put out its product much easier than many of the big names out there.

Then, more directly, "The battery is 60 percent of the cost of the bike.":

“They have to add a profit margin for the distributors and a profit margin for the dealers to then sell it to the consumer,” he said. “When you do that, you have to make the battery smaller. The battery is 60 percent of the cost of the bike.”

That's completely disingenuous.
 
Someone has to service the bikes (regular maintenance, fault diagnosis, repair). They have to be trained, and be qualified to work on the high-voltage drivetrain as well as standard motorcycle subsystems. Not to mention special training on the situational awareness system -- this bike's  SW is going to be an order of magnitude more complex than other BEV bikes with all the sensors & servos.
Parts inventories have to be maintained in multiple locations so that not every repair causes weeks or months or downtime (as seems common with Zero).
This bike has special features that seem to definitely call for extended test rides -- who's going to keep demo bikes and where, so they can be provided, and explain the features?
Who is going to set up the bike for a new owner, and make sure it's fully functional?
No matter what you call those persons, they need to make a living. For a small company, it's much easier to do this through dealers than to setup a self-owned network of service centers, Tesla-style. It makes sense to give those same people part of the job of marketing the bikes, and getting a cut of the sales price as an incentive.
The bike market isn't like cars -- all car drivers I know never set foot at a car dealership unless they're actively looking for a new car. The service operation is separated from the sales.
The vast majority of motorcyclists I know visit bike shops multiple times a year, including when there's no needed servicing and they're not planning a bike purchase anytime soon -- to look at riding gear & farkles, chat with the staff and/or other riders, etc. Pretty much all shops also sell clothing & accessories, quite unlike car dealerships, and there's usually very little physical separation between the functions.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Yeah, I agree that the dealership system has real benefits, even if the implementation is often crucially flawed.

And I like to make sure people get paid, and don't try to haggle if it's pushing that envelope.

What Damon is attempting is risky, but they're small and brash and likely benefit from that to a certain point. I'm not going to talk anyone into buying one, but it's good to know what the tradeoffs are up front.

[wavelet]

Yeah, I agree that the dealership system has real benefits, even if the implementation is often crucially flawed.

And I like to make sure people get paid, and don't try to haggle if it's pushing that envelope.

What Damon is attempting is risky, but they're small and brash and likely benefit from that to a certain point. I'm not going to talk anyone into buying one, but it's good to know what the tradeoffs are up front.

For sure.
I hope that Giraud was saying that mostly to simplify things for a journalist, and doesn't think they can really do direct-to-consumer.
It's might be possible to with very deep pockets, but AFAICS they've a 3-y.o. company with a couple of dozen employees, and have had seed VC funding to the tune of ~$4M-$5M so far.
Quite apart from that's not being how things work with motorcyclists.
Young ones starting out might be more receptive, but they won't be relevant to Damon for the near term -- the bikes will be far too expensive. AFAICS in e-motorcycle forums, e-motorcycle owners tend to be older on average than for motorcycles in general, and median age for motorcycle owners in the US is already 50 (up from 32 in 1990). 

[JaimeC]

Yeah, about that "Eliminating the middle man thing..."

https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/oped/electric-motorcycle-traditional-distribution/

Don't know why Damon thinks they can do it better.

[NEW2elec]

The only thing really holding back my excitement is the proof of what the bike can do in the real world.
If this thing can hit 200MPH and do 300mi city with two riding positions for $25k plus all the gadgets, this thing is going to get the big boys attention so fast it might be the Honda Damon by the time it hits the road.  Dealer problem solved.
Of course all bets are off if it can't preform as advertised but those claimed specs are gas beaters.


P.S.  By the way it has a left side lever anyone know what it does?

[Richard230]

Damon's business plan is great for sales, not so great for their customers should anything go wrong and their bikes need servicing or repairs - as they always do.  And as we all know, the more complicated a vehicle is the more likely something will go wrong.  I see this entire Damon news as being more pie-in-the-sky and not anything that we will see on the road anytime soon.  Kind of reminds me of a certain high-tech helmet manufacturer that ran into trouble a few years ago.   

I might add that CSC sells Chinese motorcycles via the internet and ships them to their customers in a box.  I works for them because all but one of their models is ICE powered and they have arrangements with local established motorcycle shops to service and repair the bikes should it be needed.  They do have one small city EV, however I have no idea how they deal with any problems with that model.    It is very cheap to buy so maybe they get tossed in the trash if anything goes wrong.