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[DonTom]

Great news for Energica and Livewire riders who live in CA.

On Jan 1, 2020, six days from today, it will be illegal for CA to charge for time for charging. All prices will be in KWHs ONLY.

See here.

So now, charge all they way to full, if you want , while in CA.

Even if they raise the KWH price, it will soon still be cheaper for motorcycles.  It will be the cars that get the shaft instead of the bikes.

Most of my CCS charging is done in CA, by far.

-Don-  Yuma, AZ (RV)

[Richard230]

I did notice this comment, though:  This rule will only apply to new Level 2 chargers deployed 2021 onwards, and DCFC chargers deployed 2023 onwards. But as of 2031 for Level 2 and 2033 for DCFC, all EVSEs in the state must comply with the rule, no more grand-fathered exceptions.

Of course, the government giveith and then takeith away. Starting in 2020, electric vehicles registered in California will have another $100 tacked on to their (already high because it is based upon the original purchase price) yearly license registration fee to help reimburse the state for EVs not paying a gas tax.  Perhaps no big deal for Tesla owners who drive heavy cars and rack up the miles, but not very fair for lightweight electric motorcycles that do not travel nearly as many miles on public roadways. 

[DonTom]

I did notice this comment, though:  This rule will only apply to new Level 2 chargers deployed 2021 onwards, and DCFC chargers deployed 2023 onwards. But as of 2031 for Level 2 and 2033 for DCFC, all EVSEs in the state must comply with the rule, no more grand-fathered exceptions.

The way I read it, is that only applies to the display that I don't even care about.  IMO, that should only need to  apply to  non-networked stations.

Of course, the government giveith and then takeith away. Starting in 2020, electric vehicles registered in California will have another $100 tacked on to their (already high because it is based upon the original purchase price) yearly license registration fee to help reimburse the state for EVs not paying a gas tax.  Perhaps no big deal for Tesla owners who drive heavy cars and rack up the miles, but not very fair for lightweight electric motorcycles that do not travel nearly as many miles on public roadways. 

I really get screwed on that deal as I have to pay for vehicles that are not being used, unlike ICE vehicle road tax I only pay when I get gas, not when they are in my garage not going anywhere.

However, by far, most EV owner's charge at home and the road money has to come from somewhere, so I cannot complain too much. But I cannot ride all four of my EVs at the same time.  But I also get screwed in similar ways on insurance.

-Don-  Yuma, AZ

[Crissa]

How much do you even pay in gas tax, anyhow?

The law doesn't stop them for charging for parking, tho.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

How much do you even pay in gas tax, anyhow?

I don't know or care, it supports the roads in proportion to our ICE vehicle usage. I never complain about taxes, no matter how high they are. I normally only complain when I do not like what the revenue is used for.

It is very fair even if you do not use  ICE vehicles.  You don't pay until the gasoline is used, which means you're most likely driving on the roads. BTW, there is NO road tax when you buy marine gasoline for a boat that can only serve boats while on the water. And it is illegal to put such gasoline in a car. As fair as can be, so far.

But with EVs, I own four. Even if I never use any of them on any road all year, I must pay the road tax since they are going to do it by registration fees. But I really cannot think of a better way for them to do it, so I will not complain there too much

The law doesn't stop them for charging for parking, tho.

Who is "they"?  If you mean the company supplying the juice, they will NOT be able to charge by the minute for parking and I doubt "they" can charge for parking at all. But I assume others can, such as if it is in a public parking lot where everybody must pay. But then the parking money is going in a different direction.

If you look at Plugshare in Tucson for Blink charging stations, you will see the charge stations have what is called a "parking fee" which is charged by the minute. But it is so low, (like a penny or two per minute) that nobody cares. But I guess even that will be illegal in CA.

EV-GO (CCS charging) often costs something like sixty cents per minute to charge a slow electric motorcycle, regardless of how little charge you're getting. That is the type of BS CA is trying to stop.

That is much like paying more to fill up this RV at a gas pump, not because I use more gas, but because it takes more time to fill up. And then they can play games by making it pump slower. Well, they DO play these games with CCS charging and that is what CA is putting to an end to. IOW, reduce the charge current, to make you  pay MORE!

They charge gasoline by the gallon. Electricity should be sold by the KWH. Neither should cost you for the time to get the job done, especially when they can control how long it takes you to get the job done.

-Don-  Yuma, AZ (RV)

[TheRan]

As per the article:

The Department concludes that the primary commodity delivered by EVSE is electricity, not parking space accessibility, parking space rental time, or accessibility to the EVSE itself. The Department considers those as “other services” of the transaction.

Electric vehicle service providers are allowed to charge ancillary fees such as: a connection fee; waiting fee for staying connected after reaching full state of charge; parking fee where such charges are normally applied; and a non-network access fee where applicable, provided that these fees are disclosed to the consumer prior to initiating a charging session

So yeah, they can only charge a parking fee if they're also charging people to park who aren't charging, and presumably at the same rate. They can however charge a connection fee which I fear they may set high enough to make up for any lost profits from the law change.

[Crissa]

So, Don, you can't say whether the EV tax is equivalent to the gas tax?

And that time you're sitting there charging is time someone else can't charge.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

So, Don, you can't say whether the EV tax is equivalent to the gas tax?

And that time you're sitting there charging is time someone else can't charge.

-Crissa

The part of the article I quoted also mentioned a waiting fee after the vehicle is charged. I'm not sure how they'd really go about measuring that time, collecting the fee, and enforcing it.

[DonTom]

The part of the article I quoted also mentioned a waiting fee after the vehicle is charged. I'm not sure how they'd really go about measuring that time, collecting the fee, and enforcing it.

I see you have not used CCS or a Tesla SuperCharger. There is always a way to charge an account or a credit card.

Even at a gas station they run a small charge on a credit card, in advance, for around one dollar to make sure the credit card works.  Then after you are done and left the station the rest is charged to your credit card.

Electricity is sold the same way. They charge you after you're gone,  for the real  total amount.

You cannot pay with cash at CCS or Tesla Superchargers. So it is very easy to be charged for idle time. And it will all be itemized, so you will know what you were charged for.

-Don-  Yuma, AZ (RV)

[Crissa]

Gas station holding charge is from $50 to a hundred dollars, not one.  Important if you don't have much room on your debit card

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Gas station holding charge is from $50 to a hundred dollars, not one.  Important if you don't have much room on your debit card

-Crissa

I've seen booth ways. What pisses me off with this RV is the ones that will not let you go over that $50.00 or $100.00. The ones that only charge one buck as pending, will often have no such  limit.

Filling this 70 gallon gas tank usually is well over that $100.00. 

I normally do not use debit cards. Except at Arco where I must.

-Don-  Yuma, AZ (RV)

[NEW2elec]

Keep everyone up to date on how this goes.  I'm betting not good.
A few observations and predictions are coming true though.  The 6kw stations never could work as a business model and will likely stop being installed if not shut down.  They must feel the 10 minute charging won't be too much longer in development making time the least of their worries.  Not for our bikes but they aren't thinking about them anyway.

I figured what my gas tax would be on a Zero figuring 50mpg and about 6k miles a year with GA's tax rate.  It came out to $36 but I have to pay $200 per bike for the EV tax.
The tanker trucks bringing the gas tare up the roads more in one trip than my bike ever would.

Don you can pay my taxes too if you like. 

[DonTom]

Keep everyone up to date on how this goes.  I'm betting not good.

I think no matter what they do, it will be better than what they have been doing, when it comes to CCS charging on a motorcycle.

The electricity has been costing more than gasoline for CCS charging on motorcycles. Even with CA gas prices!

If I want to save money I would not take a CCS motorcycle between my houses in Reno and my house in Auburn. I would take my Triumph Trophy SE, which normally gets better than 50 MPG in either direction.

OTOH, if I could make that trip on a single charge, as the new "21.5 KWH"  Energica can  PROBABLY do, then it would be cheaper on that trip as I will then only need home charging at 11.7 cents per KWH (electricity is cheap in Reno). Cost a bit more in Auburn, but will still be cheaper than gasoline when home charged.

With the new CA law, it could make the CCS charging also cheaper than gasoline on a motorcycle, but only time will tell. My biggest fear is that they will close down many of the CA CCS charge stations and that is not the direction I want to see them go.

-Don-  Yuma, AZ (RV)

[Crissa]

They'll probably just raise the price of power per KWh...

The problem with charging all told is that timers are cheaper than ammeters and the timed charging was encouraging both low kw chargers and discouraging level 2 chargers from being installed.

I expect this to bite us in the butt as who is going to install level 1-2 maintenance chargers if they can't charge for connect times?  This means the cheap coin-op machines I tend to charge at are illegal which will be BS.

-Crissa

[TheRan]

The part of the article I quoted also mentioned a waiting fee after the vehicle is charged. I'm not sure how they'd really go about measuring that time, collecting the fee, and enforcing it.

I see you have not used CCS or a Tesla SuperCharger. There is always a way to charge an account or a credit card.

Even at a gas station they run a small charge on a credit card, in advance, for around one dollar to make sure the credit card works.  Then after you are done and left the station the rest is charged to your credit card.

Electricity is sold the same way. They charge you after you're gone,  for the real  total amount.

You cannot pay with cash at CCS or Tesla Superchargers. So it is very easy to be charged for idle time. And it will all be itemized, so you will know what you were charged for.

-Don-  Yuma, AZ (RV)

I have not, I only charge my bike at home at the moment. So are there no stations where you can prepay for a certain amount of energy (or currently time)? Do all stations know that a vehicle is still connected but not charging? What about if a vehicle is set to only charge to a certain amount, once that amount is reached can it disconnect in a way that the station wouldn't be able to detect it?