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[enaef]

I'm starting to learn to ride next spring with a bik which comes with ABS.

Those of you who ride with ABS: Did you / do you train progressive braking in case of ABS falure or do you completely trust in a funtioning ABS?

[TheRan]

ABS is a safety measure, not something you should rely on instead of a good braking technique. It's for emergencies where panic sets in and you need to stop as quickly as physically possible and in a situation like that you won't know that it has failed until it's too late. In everyday riding it shouldn't need to kick in and if it does then you're riding too fast or carelessly for the conditions.

[enaef]

Several sources tell in case of an emergency braking with ABS one should give full power instantly to the (front) brake, while without ABS braking power should be progressively built up (within about half a second).

With my question I was referring to a situation where the ABS Warning Indicator tells me that ABS has a malfunction. Of course, that problem should be resolved as quickly as possible. However, one cannot be sure not to have to deal with an emergency situation until the ABS works properly again.

So, is it possible to learn (and use correctly in an emergency) two different emergency braking behaviours depending on the ABS situation?

[TheRan]

In that case it's a difficult one. If you know ABS isn't working then you can only brake conservatively, no matter how much you practice you're still going to be far from what ABS can achieve. So, knowing that ABS isn't working the best practice (other than getting it fixed as soon as possible) would be to just ride slower and more conservatively. Don't take chances, leave larger following distances, and start to slow down and be prepared to stop whenever you notice anything that could possible cause an issue (like a car at a junction that could pull out). Of course you should try and do that even when you do have ABS but I'll admit that I do sometimes ride beyond what I would if I didn't have it, because I know that if shit does hit the fan I have something to fall back on.

As for how to actually apply the brake, I apply it progressively even though I have ABS. I ramp up the force as I need to slow faster and if that force ends up getting to a point that the wheel might lock up then ABS is there to catch it. In an emergency that's going to be more force sooner as obviously I'll need to slow really quickly but I don't just default to full force because there's rarely going to be enough traction for that to be effective. There's no harm in doing that if you have ABS but there's no benefit either. Because of this I like to think that should my ABS fail I'd be able to brake in an emergency without locking the wheel, at least not instantly. It may end up locking momentarily as I ramp up the force but then it's just up to my reactions to ease up and regain traction.

So to summarise there are three ways to brake. You can just full force it all the time and rely on ABS, you might not die but still not a good idea. You can brake like you would without ABS but know that you can brake harder and not be afraid to and hope that without ABS you can react quick enough to a lock up (what I do). Or you can brake as if you don't have ABS which is well below the potential of what the bike is capable of. With the latter I would imagine that in an emergency you're just not going to brake hard enough because you don't think you can, or you'll panic because you're not slowing quick enough and death grip the lever.

[Doug S]

EVERY SINGLE RIDER needs to practice emergency braking, throughout their riding career but especially when they're new to riding. When some idiot turns right in front of you, it has to be reflex to instantly grab both brakes, roll off the throttle and pull the clutch in (assuming you don't have an electric bike). And you have to have an excellent feel for how much brake you can give each end without washing out either tire. I try to make sure to practice at least once a month (yeah, I do miss a month every once in a while, but I bet I've done it more recently than you have!).

Look, ABS is great, but nothing substitutes for proper riding technique. When you're in a life-endangering situation, don't you want to have BOTH your braking skill and the ABS working for you?

[Crissa]

Practicing emergency braking with and without ABS is functionally the same.  Just, when you hit the limit, the ABS keeps you safer.

You should not depend upon it, but you should, in an emergency, always be trying to get to that limit.

-Crissa

[enaef]

Thanks TeRan! I think you understood what I asked for and your answer helps!

[enaef]

EVERY SINGLE RIDER needs to practice emergency braking, throughout their riding career but especially when they're new to riding. [...], but I bet I've done it more recently than you have!).

Look, ABS is great, but nothing substitutes for proper riding technique. When you're in a life-endangering situation, don't you want to have BOTH your braking skill and the ABS working for you?

Thanks Doug S, but I'm not sure if I misinterpret your answer or if you did not understand what my question was. It is very clear that everyone has to practice emergency braking, no question regarding that. And yes, I've never done it yet, as I start to learn to ride next spring.
My question was about with what technique one does, depending on the availability of ABS. Crissa contradicts the recommendation that different techniques should be used a) with ABS (instant full power) or b) without ABS (progressively). When he is right, then yes, then my question does not make sense.

I will see what the driving instructor will tell. However, I will start to ride before seeing an instructor (that's how the system works in Switzerland).

[enaef]

Practicing emergency braking with and without ABS is functionally the same. 

-Crissa

With this you contradict what I learned from instructional videos. If you are right, my question is obsolete.
Perhaps my question is anyway too theoretical and I just have to wait until I start to ride and to train emergency braking ...

[Crissa]

Slamming ABS may or may not work.  Which is why you practice progressive squeezing.  Every implementation of ABS feels differently and will trigger at different points on different surfaces.

The point is to get to that trigger level and just skim it.  Any more does no good.  Any less and you're going to take longer to stop.  Too much too fast and you're risking destabilizing the bike.  Just as without, you would want to get to the point of lock-up, and skim it.

If you have really good ABS, it will trigger in a way you can stay stable.  But you'll only know that if you practice triggering it on a variety of surfaces.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Slamming ABS may or may not work.

All my 4 wheel vehicles have ABS. I noticed on snow, at very slow speeds, the best way to make a stop with most of them is to jam on the brake very hard every time.  If I hit the brakes lightly in the snow, it often slides all over the road.

But yeah, "most" but  not all.    How the ABS works seems to change a bit between different vehicles. I think some only engage the ABS when there is more pressure on the pedal, and others activate it sooner.

With my motorcycles, I normally ride much like a little old lady and I brake the same way on all of them, as some of my bikes have ABS and some do not and I cannot always remember which is which while riding.

-Don-  Yuma, AZ (RV)

[Crissa]

You never want to press lightly to emergency stop.  You need firm increasing pressure, ABS or no.  You want to get to the point of lockup, and tread that line.  ABS lets you tread it better.

-Crissa

[Frank]

You want to apply pressure fast - but not "grab" the lever as hard as you can - doing so increases the footprint of the front tire and is what racers recommend.

FWIW, I do track days on a Ninja 300 with ABS and have never once experienced impending lockup, even braking very hard downhill.  If you have crap tires you might have problems or encounter a poor surface you might, but that's where the ABS comes in.  Modern (especially sport) bike tires are so good though, it's amazing.