Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[shayan]

https://www.blinkcharging.com/single-post/2019/12/12/Zero-Motorcycles-Dealer-Embraces-the-Future-of-Electric-Motorsports-with-the-Installation-of-Blink-EV-Charging-Stations

I'm not sure what the current/voltage rating of existing L2 chargers are to know if this 80A charger is a significant improvement or not.

[Curt]

Most L2 stations seem to be standardizing on 32A (7.68kW), which is also the limit of the typical EV on-board charger (Bolt, Leaf, Kona, Tesla model 3 SR, Clarity, ...)

80A would require a 100A circuit (19.2kW) and would be a large improvement for vehicles that can accept it. Theoretically a 7.2 brick could be charged in 22.5 minutes and 14.4 brick could be charged in 45 minutes.

[shayan]

Correct, but this is one station that could work for the 12kW charger on the SR/F. And if at some point the 12kW capability gets onto the other battery packs too.
But this would be great option, since Zero does not have DC fast charge capability.

-Shayan

[DonTom]

https://www.blinkcharging.com/single-post/2019/12/12/Zero-Motorcycles-Dealer-Embraces-the-Future-of-Electric-Motorsports-with-the-Installation-of-Blink-EV-Charging-Stations

I'm not sure what the current/voltage rating of existing L2 chargers are to know if this 80A charger is a significant improvement or not.

Blink is the most common chargers in this area, but I have yet to see them anywhere else.

Guess whose bike this is in the photo here at a Blink charge station.

-Don-  Tucson, AZ

[DonTom]

I'm not sure what the current/voltage rating of existing L2 chargers are to know if this 80A charger is a significant improvement or not.

If the Harley LW could handle true Lever Two charging at 80 amps, it could then charge faster on J-1772 than it would on CCS. So then the so-called "slow AC charge" will be faster than the CCS fast charge.

The Harley can only charge at 12 KW on CCS. The Harley CCS stations at HD dealers can only do 15 KW.

But 240 VAC at 80 amps is 19,200 watts or 19.2 KW.

That means on at least on some bikes, the J1772 at 80 amps could even be faster than CCS.

But my Energica can handle 26 KW CCS charging, and that is amazing. And the Blink "slow" AC charging at 80 amps will be almost the same speed as that, at 19.2 KW.

The problem is that the internal AC chargers on motorcycles will have to be a lot larger.  Even the Zero SR/f Premium with charge tank is only 12 KW, let Blink can do 19.2 KW.

And how large of an AC charger can fit on a motorcycle? The SR/F P. with Charge tank (12 KW) shows the real problem, at least for now.

-Don-  Tucson, AZ (RV)

[MVetter]

Curt is right, this 19.2kW station will be really nice for SR/F owners who opt for the additional 6kW charger. Now they just need about 200 more of them across the US to make an impact.

[shayan]

@Curt @Morgan
Absolutely! Only if the batteries can overcome the 1C limitations. But if we consider nominal capacities of those packs, the charging times could actually be better.

@Don I'm assuming that bike is your 2017 Orange Zero DS ZF 6.5

Also yes, the A/C onboard chargers have to get bigger to be able to handle more input A/C (and convert it to DC). But i guess adding a A/C charger to a dealer or a commercial outlet is cheaper to them than a CCS charger.

I guess the A/C chargers over time have gotten smaller, more efficient, cheaper and lighter over time, just like the battery packs have. And if that trend follows, then it could mean better chargers in the future which could fit in the same space as whats available on a larger bike like the SR/F. Though, obviously, it can probably never get on par with the speeds of a DC charger.

To maintain reasonable charging speeds on an A/C charger, the only way to make the bike a better overall package would be by having better range with the same kWh of battery capacity by making the battery much lighter and making the bikes more slippery through air.

-Shayan

[MVetter]

As I see it, onboard AC chargers are a means to an end. It makes far more sense to have offboard stations converting the power to DC at the requested voltage so your bike isn't burdened with cumbersome AC conversion units. What would have been really cool is if Blink made these stations 5 years ago.

[shayan]

You are right Morgan, they are too late in the game and i guess most bikes are now going to have DC fast charge available by default. In some weird ways Harley has it right. If its home you will mostly be charging overnight and if you are riding it will mostly be DC charging. But with lesser DC chargers out there in some parts, that combo is a bit too early in the game maybe

-Shayan

[MVetter]

H-D would have it right if the US infrastructure supported it. As such their bike is either designed by an idealist or an idiot. Probably a little from column A, a little from column B. A major problem is their DC Fast charging is EXTREMELY throttled. An owner reported back that it charged as high as 21kW.. but only from like 0-30%. Then it scaled back to 1C. Then at like 60% it scaled down to .5C. In the end, at stations that bill you by the minute, it can cost as much as $15 to charge a LiveWire in an hour. That's no way to do things.

As the great 1999 film, Mystery Men, put it, "The Blue Raja : All I'm saying is, when we split the cheque three ways the steak-eater picks the pocket of the salad-man."

In the same way that stations that bill by the minute pick the pocket of the smaller-batteried motorcycle. It makes infinitely more sense to charge at stations that bill by the kWh. However we're not necessarily spoiled for choice at the moment so we take what we can get.

[Crissa]

Plus one for the MM quote

[DonTom]

@Don I'm assuming that bike is your 2017 Orange Zero DS ZF 6.5

Yep.  Last year, when I was here. I like to take an RV Trip down here every year just before Xmas.   IOW, just  before all the snowbirds come to southern AZ.

I have the same bike with me now, of course.

And it's in the mid 70's F. here today and tomorrow. This is probably the very peak of the riding season in this area.

-Don-  Tucson, AZ (RV)

[Crilly]

Yup, I sure would like to ride my Livewire up and down Lemon Mountain.

[DonTom]

As I see it, onboard AC chargers are a means to an end. It makes far more sense to have offboard stations converting the power to DC at the requested voltage so your bike isn't burdened with cumbersome AC conversion units. What would have been really cool is if Blink made these stations 5 years ago.

But the J1772 will always have one big advantage I don't think there is an EV made that cannot use J1772 in one simple method or another. I  have charged all four of my EVs with J1772.   Both my Zeros, the Energica and my Tesla Model Three.

J-1772 is a very good standard for all to use, even if rather slow.

The problem with DC charging is there is no standard. Or too many standards.

What would be great is if they could agree on a level three DC standard. They have a standard with  AC charging and that's the J1772.

The problem is Zero wants to use a low voltage and Tesla wants to use  high voltage batteries. Then in the middle, we have CCS and others.  But they can all use J1772.

So I don't think J1772 is going away anytime soon. It's also very handy for home charging where more than 90% of us do most of our charging.

-Don-  Tucson, AZ (RV)

[shayan]

+1 for that MM quote and it happens to me all the time!
With Harley's approach it certainly avoids needing any 1.3kW+ charger and the extra weight on the bike, because if we know that thing has DC fast charging, we would want to try to plan our trips that way and only AC charge after the ride for the day is over. But yeah throttling it down isnt going to help much with that.

@Don
Any recommendations on good routes around Phoenix? I'll be around that area the next couple of weeks. Anything up/around the hills/mountains there?

-Shayan