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[JaimeC]

Promising results:
https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-tesla-battery-deterioration

[Crissa]

Yeah, tho I don't know any motorcycles with active-cooled batteries in solid-polymer form-factor. A study of Leafs would probably be more appropriate.  (And noting their fast-charging use, too.)

Still, it's promising to know that lithium batteries are pretty durable.

-Crissa

[JaimeC]

Yeah, tho I don't know any motorcycles with active-cooled batteries in solid-polymer form-factor. A study of Leafs would probably be more appropriate.  (And noting their fast-charging use, too.)

Guess you missed this link in that article, then:
https://www.nimblefins.co.uk/study-real-life-nissan-leaf-battery-deterioration

[NEW2elec]

Well over the summer at about 90F + temps and riding slow, 45ish back roads, I had 82 miles on my 13 Zero (with a 14my battery replacement) and still had 3 bars showing on the dash.  So it's still right there where it should be for city range in summer. 
That's about 23k miles on that battery.

[Crissa]

'Bars displayed on dash' is not a very scientific measure, though.  Nor did it track fast-charging use.  And it spent as much time speculating on the newer batteries by the older ones, but it was pure speculation.

-Crissa

@New:  I got 86 miles riding over the mountains and back on my bike before it quit going up a 6+% grade at 7% SOC in 90+F weather.  It only reported 600 miles ridden in the last five years, tho (it got stuck as a display model before the previous owner bought it, and then he only used it on weekends to go to the beach and back, which was only a couple miles.)

[NEW2elec]

For the Tesla and the Leaf and the Zero for that matter some of the cells need to "checked" for dendrites and full charge voltage.
I have seen some YT guys test old laptop 18650 cells from a "bad" battery and it's just one bad cell throwing the whole performance off.
The Leaf numbers, though unscientific, are unacceptable for a $30k new car.  Gas cars from Japan can get 300k miles regularly without major issues.

[Crissa]

Why is it unacceptable?

Even over a 100K miles it'll be no more expensive to pay for electricity and a new battery than paying $4/gal for the average fuel efficiency vehicle.

And that's for the least reliable battery.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

Because a range of 53 miles is a joke.  Plus most of the country pays about $2.50 for gas.
A new Leaf was about 30k in 2012.  A new Versa even in 2020 is only 18k

Here in GA there is a 2012 Leaf SV for sale with 102k miles for $4000.  There is a 2012 Versa with 130k miles for $4k.  Only one will get me to and from work on the highway.  I'm likely looking at a few grand in repair costs for either of them in five years time but I would feel the Versa could still do the job in five years and the 2012 Leaf could not.

That's why I said unacceptable for the old battery cars.  It's one thing to lose resale value but it's another to lose the usefulness of the car in that period of time.

[Crissa]

Because a range of 53 miles is a joke.  Plus most of the country pays about $2.50 for gas.

Today, sure.  Tomorrow?   https://www.eia.gov/todayinenergy/detail.php?id=33562

And a range of 53 miles is probably where you'd replace the battery, yes.  Has anyone had that level of degradation in a Zero tho?  Add to that motorcycles aren't expected to have the same miles/life.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

To be clear I'm really complaining about the Nissan Leaf and mostly just the oldest ones.
Nissan upped their battery replacement charge from $6k to $9k.  They won't increase the battery size either only replace the size it came with.
If the guy who bought the 2012 Leaf for $30k now wants to replace the battery he has to drop $9k just to get back to the 88 or so miles the car had in 2012.  That's why it's selling for only $4k.  It might be a good car for a young kid to go to high school in.  It would likely keep them out of speeding trouble.  The cost of city parking kills the use of a "city" car as you can't escape the city on the weekends in it.

They are getting better for sure but as I look at the lower end used market for EV autos these are the types of problems I keep seeing.