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[EdgarZero]

Hi everyone

I have a problem with my 2013 Zero S. The power is completely gone when I turn the key on. No lights and no red flashes in the system warning indicator (no power at all in the instrument panel). The only sign of life is in the BMS, which has the fourth led flashing in an aparent normal way (one green flash every two seconds) but only when I reset the BMS. The bike won´t change either, no click (of the contactor I think) when I plug it to the AC cable and no green changing light on the instrument panel).

In the last couple of months the motorcycle had two strange behaviors: first it turned on (lights and instrument panel) with no reason when it was parked and I had the key in my pocket). This hapenned something like every five or ten minutes and remained on for less than one minute. The other strange behavior was that the bike stayed on even with the key in off position and out of the ignition. That hapenned after riding in the rain and was the last thing that ocurred before the motorcycle died (some minutes before).

I did some research and found that the strange on behavior with the key off could be related with the DC/DC converter being exposed to rain because the connectors are not waterprof. I have to admit I didn't check the malfunction when the bike was still operational and now I'm obviously very worried because of the total loss of power.

One more detail is that when I plug the AC cable the red led in the change control unit flashes on time and when I disconnect it, it flashes in a two flashes/ aprox. one second pause/three flashes fashion. As I said before, the bike won`t change.

Any help is appreciated. Sorry for my bad English, I live outside the US.

[Crissa]

If there's water or debris in the pan, it won't charge.

There's alot of things that could be wrong, though.  First thing I'd do would be to open the panels and see if water has gotten into anything.  It could be putting itself into a protection mode instead of turning on.

I don't know where to go from there.

-Crissa

[NEW2elec]

Hi EdgarZero, I have a 13 Zero as well.  My DC-DC convertor died by me losing all lights and dash functions.  They started going out for a few seconds and then got up to several minutes and then it just would not come back on.  The one from the factory is a 300W max unit and 2015 and later used a 500W max unit.  I had mine replaced with the 500W unit and it has been fine ever since.

That may or may not be your issue or your only issue.  You can use the app to download the error logs to your phone and email them to yourself.  Then run them through this:  http://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/log_parser.php
I don't know your background or how comfortable your are working on the bike but this is the main resource for self help.
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Main_Page

I got my bike torn down to the convertor and  there were too may small wiring connectors for my bad hands to deal with so I bought the convertor online and had the dealer replace it.  (much cheaper) 

I can't say if my bike would charge or not.  Once I lost the lights it was parked until it was repaired.

Good luck and let us know how it goes.  Oh and dielectric grease on the connectors helps with the water.

[EdgarZero]

Crissa I will check everything for water as you say, thanks
NEW2elec thank you very much, your case seems very similar to mine. I will try yo get the error logs. I have not tried to check the connectors of the DC/DC converter, I've been busy but will do soon.
I will Let you know how It goes.

I really appreciate the help from both of you. This forum rocks. Long Life to electric motorcycles!

[EdgarZero]

Hi again friends.
I could reach the dc-dc converter and noticed (with the connector pluged in) 101.4 volts coming from pins 2 and 3 (the input from the MBB) and no volts in pins 4 AND 5 (which are supossed to produce 13.5 volts from the output of the converter).
Is this information enough to know the dc-dc converter is broken? As I said before, the bike has no power at all and it wont turn on which Is the main problem.
I dont know how to test pin 1 because it is only positive and has no negative cable.

Any halp would be appreciated.
Edgar

[Crissa]

Without that 12v output, the bike cannot turn on.

-Crissa

[Curt]

Is the DC/DC converter enabled? It is enabled when the MBB drives pin 1 high.

[NEW2elec]

It sounds like Curt knows more about the function than me so go with his testing.

For what it's worth, mine would still ride.  I would be going down the road and lose dash and light functions.
I remember I was able to power it up onto my hitch ramp going to the dealer. 
I didn't test any voltage off the pins and just rolled the dice with the replacement of the convertor.  I figured at the very least I'd go from 300W max to 500W max.
Luckily it did fix my issue but again Curt may be able to better diagnose the problem than me.

[Curt]

It sounds like Curt knows more about the function than me so go with his testing.

Definitely not. I just glanced at the schematic.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Pin 1’s negative is the same as the B- input.

The MBB has to enable the DC-DC converter by the appropriate pin. I think that’s 1 based on the above but haven’t checked the connector recently.

So, the question is whether the enable is working or not, which could be an MBB issue but could also be a connectivity issue with a bent pin or unseated connector or something.

[EdgarZero]

Well, thank you very much for your replies, friends! I have emailed Zero but no response yet.

Well, I will give another try to check pin 1 voltage in the DC DC converter. I have tried connecting the multimeter's negative in the bike's frame and the positive in pin 1 and so far only a small measure (something like 0.1 volts). I will try connecting the negative to the B- input as Brian said. Or do I have to connect the negative terminal in another specific way in order to check pin 1?

I think the input in pin 1 has to be 12 volts when off and high (the voltage from the battery) when on. If there is no voltage at all, the problem could be the MBB, right? Could a failure in the MBB be the responsible for not having power at all?

I also checked the continuity of high voltage fuse 1 (low power b+) and it's fine but I just can't find the other high voltage fuses. I would be very interested in checking the MBB fuse but it isn't where the manual says! Does anyone have an idea of where it is?

Thanks again, camarades

[EdgarZero]

The thing with the fuses is that the bike had the battery changed for a zf 13.0 in a recall, so the fuses are not located where the 2013 manual says and I can't find them in the location that the 2015+ manuals indicate. Do you have an idea of where they could be or any cables in particular that they are attached to?

[EdgarZero]

First sign of life! Still far from the road but it is something.

I did something that I read in another post: connected pin 1 (enable) to pin 2 (positive input) of the DC-DC converted connecting port with the intention of powering it and it worked! Had lights and dashboard on. Hence, I think the DC-DC converter is ok and the problem is the MBB.

Any ideas from here to test the MBB before ordering a replacement? I read that I could build a cable to connect to the MBB OBD diagnostics output. Could this one work in my bike's conditions (no power with the ignition on)? Or maybe it could be powered externally? I don't know. Any ideas?

Here is a picture of the moment when the DC-DC converter worked and I had 12 volts output from it. feel there is a chance to have this bike in the road again!

[Curt]

Good debugging!

Maybe even easier than what you've done so far is to use the app to email the logs to yourself and decode them using http://home.hasslers.net/zerologparser/log_parser.php

As an example, if I turn on my 2016, ride it, and turn it off, about 35 new log lines are generated (as below), so it's not that much to search through. You might find that your log contains an important error message.

When it says "Sevcon Turned On", I'm not sure if that refers to the motor controller or the DC-DC converter that are both Sevcon, but I'm thinking it's probably the DC-DC.

01354                       0   DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External
 01355                       0   Power On                   Key Switch
 01356                       0   Key On
 01357                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from None mode to Stopped mode
 01358                       0   Module 00 Opening Contactor  vmod:   0.000V, batt curr:   0A
 01359                       0   Module 01 Opening Contactor  vmod:   0.000V, batt curr:   0A
 01360                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
 01361                       0   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Stopped mode
 01362                       1   Sevcon Turned On
 01363                       1   Module 00 CAN Link Up
 01364                       1   Module 00 Registered       serial: 16sg3112,  vmod: 115.264V
 01365     02/22/2017 11:03:46   Module 01 Registered       serial: 16sg3122,  vmod: 115.281V
 01366     02/22/2017 11:04:17   Module 01 CAN Link Up
 01367     02/22/2017 11:04:17   Sevcon CAN Link Up
 01368     02/22/2017 11:04:18   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Stopped mode to Running mode
 01369     02/22/2017 11:04:18   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
 01370     02/22/2017 11:04:18   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
 01371     02/22/2017 11:04:18   Module 00 Closing Contactor  vmod: 115.270V, maxsys: 115.285V, minsys: 115.265V, diff: 0.020V, vcap: 101.750V, prechg: 88%
 01372     02/22/2017 11:04:18   Module 01 Closing Contactor  vmod: 115.288V, maxsys: 115.285V, minsys: 115.265V, diff: 0.020V, vcap: 101.750V, prechg: 88%
 01373     02/22/2017 11:04:18   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
 01374     02/22/2017 11:04:18   DEBUG: Module 01 Contactor is now Closed
 01375     02/22/2017 11:04:18   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 0 Charger 2
 01376     02/22/2017 11:04:18   INFO:  Enabling External Chg 1 Charger 3
 01377     02/22/2017 11:04:26   Riding                     PackTemp: h 15C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.231V, MotAmps:   0, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  24C, CtrlTemp:  12C, AmbTemp:  15C, MotRPM:   0, Odo: 1938km
 01378     02/22/2017 11:05:26   Riding                     PackTemp: h 15C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:112.760V, MotAmps:  87, BattAmps:  33, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  26C, CtrlTemp:  14C, AmbTemp:  15C, MotRPM:1321, Odo: 1939km
 01379     02/22/2017 11:06:26   Riding                     PackTemp: h 15C, l 14C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:112.226V, MotAmps: 119, BattAmps:  39, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  30C, CtrlTemp:  15C, AmbTemp:  15C, MotRPM:1250, Odo: 1939km
 01380     02/22/2017 11:07:26   Riding                     PackTemp: h 15C, l 14C, PackSOC: 99%, Vpack:109.930V, MotAmps: 139, BattAmps:  77, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  30C, CtrlTemp:  16C, AmbTemp:  14C, MotRPM:2053, Odo: 1940km
 01381     02/22/2017 11:08:26   Riding                     PackTemp: h 15C, l 14C, PackSOC: 99%, Vpack:113.644V, MotAmps:  46, BattAmps:   7, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  35C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:  14C, MotRPM: 549, Odo: 1940km
 01382     02/22/2017 11:09:26   Riding                     PackTemp: h 15C, l 14C, PackSOC: 99%, Vpack:114.170V, MotAmps: -18, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 11, MotTemp:  33C, CtrlTemp:  17C, AmbTemp:  14C, MotRPM: 833, Odo: 1941km
 01383     02/22/2017 11:09:55   Power Off                  Key Switch
 01384     02/22/2017 11:09:55   Sevcon Turned Off
 01385     02/22/2017 11:09:55   Module 00 Opening Contactor  vmod: 114.099V, batt curr:   1A
 01386     02/22/2017 11:09:55   Module 01 Opening Contactor  vmod: 114.108V, batt curr:   1A
 01387     02/22/2017 11:09:55   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 0 Charger 2
 01388     02/22/2017 11:09:55   INFO:  Disabling External Chg 1 Charger 3

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Sevcon in the logs refers to the motor controller in my experience, not the DC-DC converter. "CAN Link Up" definitely refers to the motor controller, as the converter has no CAN link.

If the "Sevcon Turned (On|Off)" refers to the DC-DC converter, that'd be pretty confusing, but Zero logs are not written for broad understanding in my experience, so I wouldn't be too surprised.