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[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

To clarify my issue with this thread, what I want is to have this thread be on the General section instead of the Zero 2013+ section.

Posting the Energica news here as a breakthrough and asking for a comparison is targeting Zero owners instead of getting it off the sub forum into the general discussion.

[DonTom]

The fast charging is great on paper but the stations just aren't out there (outside of CA) and they cost more then gas at this point.

It helps a lot to not charge to 100%, when possible.  It can then be cheaper than gas. You want to charge when you're getting the most KW per minute as most of the CCS chargers charge by the minute. Don't charge past 80% unless you have to.

I can recharge one time and make it to Auburn, CA  from Reno,NV  if I charge near the summit to 100%. 99 miles total trip.

Or I can charge to 80% in Truckee, CA  and 80% again past the summit on I-80  and save a few bucks and minutes. Yeah, also saves time! The wait at each charger twice is significantly less than one full charge.

But we also have to consider a few places, such as the HD dealer CCS chargers  are free (at least for now).

And here in Reno, it's 11.7 cents per KWH to charge my 11.7KWH battery.  That's a lot cheaper than gasoline. Full "tank" for a $1.37.

Yeah, going east past Fallon would be a hassle. But it's getting better. There are now CCS chargers in Fernley and Fallon. Going east of there would be a problem, such as trying to get to Salt Lake City even on our major freeway (I-80).

But I expect such to change in the next year or so.

-Don- Reno, NV

[MVetter]

I have extensive experience (2+ years daily driver) riding Zeroes and I've owned an Energica SS9 for a few weeks, putting nearly 3k miles on it already. I actually wrote up a blog about it after my first road trip. I will be writing a followup blog shortly because I took another road trip twice as long immediately after. I'll just summarize some key points that are MY PERSONAL thoughts/feelings on the bikes.

- I am an unrepentant fast-charge addict. That's why I had 13.2kW of charging on my Zero SR with Power Tank. I used to be happy with that. Now, with DC fast charging, if I see 13kW it means I'm almost full and it's time to unplug. The fastest I could go with a Zero is now unacceptably slow with my Energica because I can get 20+kW all day.
- I prefer the sound of the Zero
- I miss having regen tied to the brake lever of the Zero. Energica's regen is tied to throttle positioning and is potentially much stronger, but I really liked the brake lever.
- The fit and finish on the Energicas, and the components, are very high quality. The bikes look as pretty on the inside as they do on the outside.
- I feel guilty doing short trips on the Energica. On our property we often commute from the workshop to the house, and growing up that was a task accomplished with Honda CT110s. My brother uses his FXS for that and that feels fine, but the Energica seems like ridiculous overkill. I kinda want one of those new Cake Osas announced at EICMA to be honest.
- Handling on the Energica is far superior


The thing to remember, and I've said this before, is that Zero's bread and butter has historically been the commuter market. It's people who commute to work, plug in, ride home, and then plug in at their garage. There are plenty of people that do this and are deliriously happy to do this. Zero EXCELS in the commuter market. I firmly believe the FXS is the best urban commuter bike available today, and everyone should have one or at least ride one for a bit. Phenomenal machines. Energica, on the other hand, is targeting the sport bike crowd. I get the impression they don't want to see themselves as a competitor for Zero, but as a competitor for Ducati.

There is plenty of room in the market for both companies. In the end, get the bike that fits your needs. My needs are fast charging, and where I live the network is robust enough to support my needs. The choice, therefore, is clear for me. Zero will have to embrace CCS at some point. They know this. They're not stupid. I would be shocked if there wasn't some sort of announcement from Zero about CCS support in the next 6 months.

[DonTom]

They know this. They're not stupid. I would be shocked if there wasn't some sort of announcement from Zero about CCS support in the next 6 months.

That will mean a totally redesigned bike that accepts almost three times the voltage.  I kinda doubt Zero will make such a major change any time soon.

BTW, I also like the braking regen of the Zeros. But it seems to me, for whatever reason,  only the cheaper vehicles have such. Not my Energica or my Tesla has any regen increase with the brake. However, they have a lot more deceleration regen even at minimum than the Zeros at 100%.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

We've already heard that their TT bike used higher voltage battery pack.

It just depends on whether their version-three software or hardware could manage the high voltage battery.  It might not be as big a change as you think if they've been looking ahead.

Personally, I only need to charge if I go to San Jose or take the highway.  Honestly, I've never even really ridden that far, and I rarely even drive that far.  Once a month I go to Oakland and twice a month my spouse goes to SF.  Those are technically in my Zero's range, but it'd be so grueling.

Right now I only have to plug it in once every three trips to Santa Cruz.  I only use from 25% SoC on the ride up and down 9.  That's what, a half-hour commute?

-Crissa

[MVetter]

Right now I only have to plug it in once every three trips to Santa Cruz.  I only use from 25% SoC on the ride up and down 9.  That's what, a half-hour commute?

Do you ever visit Re-Cycle Garage in Santa Cruz on Sundays? I'll be there. We have fun and kick tires and tell bullshit stories. Misfits are good folk.

[centra12]

Hello
After the update of Energica the Zero SR/F has a hard time in Europe and especially in Germany. Same price as the 12KW Zero and CCS which is massively expanded in Europe. In Germany the system is already area-wide and is further massively brewed by the government /car manufacturers and Discountern.
If the 21kW battery is also recharged by 20-80% in 20 minutes, the breakthrough for an electric motorcycle from Energica has been achieved.
With this an important market for Zero will break away and CCS is not only becoming more and more accepted in Europe. 
 

[Hans2183]

Not sure where (maybe video from newzeroland?) someone haven ridden both said that he originally thought zero had very positive range numbers which are hard to achieve. But was surprised to find out that energica's numbers were even less realistic.

The energica battery is 1,5 the 14,4 KWh pack of zero. Zero in optimal conditions (Read as city in eco mode) promises a range of 259 km. x1,5 that is 388,5 km, not the 400 km they claim. Also zero so far has been known to get better range.

I'll do a test ride for sure. Requested one but since there is only a single exclusive dealer here in BE for energica all depends on their customer service. For zero we have way more dealers. I eventually ordered at the second one I entered just because they gave a better first impression.

[NEW2elec]

The extra weight of the Energicas means they are less efficient for each kWh of battery used.  But I haven't seen any posts complaining about Energicas not doing what they claimed they could do.  Unless otherwise shown I'll say the bikes will do (close to) the numbers they give.

Lightning on the other hand...

Also does anyone know if they upped the AC charger to 6kW or still just 3kW?

[centra12]

That's the beauty of over 20kW!   

The efficiency can be neglected one has enough and with CCS also quickly recharged. Perfect for a motorcycle 

So you can concentrate on the performance

The motor and battery are cooled so no overheating of the components as with Zero. It also has the advantage that I can always charge quickly. I am curious once how the Zero behaves with the 12kW charger if it is charged several times in a day.

[NEW2elec]

Oh for sure that big new battery is a wonderful thing.
The CCS charging "should" be a wonderful thing.  Real world long term data just isn't there yet so I'm hoping it works and no battery issues come from it (Nissan's rapidgate [no heat management, I know]).

For the record neither of my Zeros have ever hit a thermal warning.  I never toured or raced or even charged it over 3kw which are the normal triggers, but they are in Atlanta heat with no issues ridden around the speed limit of sub interstate roads.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The OP created this thread for expressing enthusiasm for Energica on a Zero sub-forum. I really don’t think this is appropriate. Let’s move the thread to the general section.

[MVetter]

For the record neither of my Zeros have ever hit a thermal warning.  I never toured or raced or even charged it over 3kw which are the normal triggers, but they are in Atlanta heat with no issues ridden around the speed limit of sub interstate roads.

Oh, I did. But my SR was charging at 13.2kW. That'll warm the battery right up after a few back to back ride-->charge sequences.

[NEW2elec]

Yeah MVetter you and Brandon aren't afraid to find where the limits are.   

BrianTRice, I think they just wanted the most people to chime in.  The 13+ Zero section gets the most views by far.
I'm fine if it's moved or not but I don't think it was meant to demean Zero.

I am glad to see the new battery and hope other companies will follow or do even better.  For me both the Energicas and CCS charging itself are in the same boat.  Sounds great but they're not close enough for me to use.  I'm happy for those that they work for but they are a no go for me and I will continue to enjoy my Zeros.

[DonTom]

  For me both the Energicas and CCS charging itself are in the same boat.  Sounds great but they're not close enough for me to use.  I'm happy for those that they work for but they are a no go for me and I will continue to enjoy my Zeros.

Do you ever recharge your Zero on the road?

The Energica can also charge with J-1772 direct (at 3 KW) or even 120 VAC with the supplied cable.

I have my SS9 in the LPR (Long Period Rest) mode with 120 VAC right now, as I probably will not  head home for a couple of months. But it can fully charge with the same supplied cable at around 1.5 KW.  LPR mode just keeps it at 85% SOC or whatever and keeps the batteries balanced.

-Don-  Williams, AZ (RV with my Zero DS)