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[DonTom]

Thanks for mansplaining that to this EE. Not the question I asked, though. I asked a question about the terminology we've been using...and I still think I'm correct. The word "nominal" refers to a name, not an actual thing. So my "14.4 kWh" battery doesn't actually have 14.4 kWh of capacity, that's just its name. Its true capacity is whatever it is.

Many things have its own language, such as EVs and electronics. "Nominal" in electronics means the value where it is expected to operate at. In other uses, it can mean something else.

In fact, see here.

"Nominal level is the operating level at which an electronic signal processing device is designed to operate. "

There it is talking about signals, not KWH, but the same principle  applies in the same way in all of electronics. I have seen the word "nominal" used for the "as really used" value many times dealing in electronics.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

I just found a better link here.

"Nominal capacity (Ah) and discharge current (A)

Battery capacity shows how much energy the battery can “nominally” deliver from fully charged, under a certain set of discharge conditions."

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crilly]

But what is the difference between what goes in and what comes out?

[Sklith]

But what is the difference between what goes in and what comes out?

Heat loss from the internal resistances of the battery.

[Crissa]

But what is the difference between what goes in and what comes out?

Heat loss from the internal resistances of the battery.

And step value in the charger, as well as its own resistance and capacitance.

-Crissa

[Sklith]

And step value in the charger, as well as its own resistance and capacitance.

-Crissa

Yeah, the AC charger spinning its fan to reject all that extra heat, that's all energy you aren't getting into the battery . This is why I don't like charging at low power, the losses take up too much of the power you're pulling from the wall.

[DonTom]

Yeah, the AC charger spinning its fan to reject all that extra heat, that's all energy you aren't getting into the battery . This is why I don't like charging at low power, the losses take up too much of the power you're pulling from the wall.

Often that is because the 120 VAC chargers increase the voltage to 240 VAC which drops the efficiency, besides half the current.

-Don-  Cold Springs Valley, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I can’t ignore any electric motorcycle with 20kWh onboard, but I feel like this giant battery change has to involve some trade offs this article doesn’t cover.

Let’s find some article that describes the chemistry, see what warranty goes with it, and let a battery professional weigh in on what we can expect from these batteries.

I heard a mileage limit for the warranty thrown around that did not seem attractive for touring, so I feel like this might not be the magical touring machine recipe yet. The bikes are obviously built fine and have good numbers, but the designs show a track mindset that I can’t embrace.

[HoodRichOG]

On the other hand, the pack might have decent longevity since you can charge to 80-90% and still get places.

I'm also curious about weight.

[Crissa]

AC to AC conversion is very efficient, and is not the source of much of the heat.

But yes, that's why there's a fan.   And charging at lower power means you lose more power to the circuitry - but as wires and components rise in temperature their resistance tends to increase (which is how fuses work).  So sometimes charging at higher rates means you lose more x-x  Darn environmental conditions.

-Crissa

[Sklith]

Higher voltage means more power a the same amps so make the electronics 1 kV! Porsche legit did this though, 800 kW is pretty damn sweet.

[Crilly]

My SR/F runs a fan when I first plug it in for about 7 seconds.  Is it just a test, or are they venting 
The battery?

[Crissa]

My SR/F runs a fan when I first plug it in for about 7 seconds.  Is it just a test, or are they venting 
The battery?

It's probably a simple 'fan is on when power is on' and then after the interface has booted up, it decides it's cool enough it can turn off the fan.  It can't manage the fan speed until the controller finishes booting up and has polled enough sensor cycles, and that can take several seconds to several minutes (depending upon the clock speed of that controller times sesor poll period.)

No, I don't know anything about the SR/F, that's just how hardware programming works in general.

-Crissa

[protomech]

I can’t ignore any electric motorcycle with 20kWh onboard, but I feel like this giant battery change has to involve some trade offs this article doesn’t cover.

Let’s find some article that describes the chemistry, see what warranty goes with it, and let a battery professional weigh in on what we can expect from these batteries.

I heard a mileage limit for the warranty thrown around that did not seem attractive for touring, so I feel like this might not be the magical touring machine recipe yet. The bikes are obviously built fine and have good numbers, but the designs show a track mindset that I can’t embrace.

Same warranty, cycle ratings for 2019 and 2020. Battery warranty is 31000 miles. Both years claim 1200 cycles to 80% remaining capacity. Older technology was NMC, don't think they've revealed what tech they're using now.

The absolute charge rate is down, both in terms of C rate and miles per minute. 2019 could charge 0-85% in 20 minutes at 26 kW, about 3 highway miles per minute charging.

2020 Energica+ charges 0-80% in 40 minutes - presumably at around 20 kW, or a bit over 2 highway miles per minute. Energica models prior to 2019 also charged at about this rate. Perhaps Energica will validate higher charge rates in time.

The situation feels very similar to the Hyundai Ioniq Electric - newer version has a ~35% larger battery but charges almost half the speed as 2019.

[DonTom]

The absolute charge rate is down, both in terms of C rate and miles per minute. 2019 could charge 0-85% in 20 minutes at  26 kW, about 3 highway miles per minute charging.

2020 Energica+ charges 0-80% in 40 minutes - presumably at around 20 kW, or a bit over 2 highway miles per minute. Energica models prior to 2019 also charged at about this rate. Perhaps Energica will validate higher charge rates in time.

The situation feels very similar to the Hyundai Ioniq Electric - newer version has a ~35% larger battery but charges almost half the speed as 2019.

My 2020 SS9  charges at (up to) 26KW. But I guess they mean the actual year, not what they call the model year.

But I cannot make any sense out of why a larger battery will only accept a lower charge rate. But your numbers don't seem to add up, 20 KW charging should not take more than twice as long as a 26 KW charge. But if it only charges at 12KW, Energica can keep their new battery, I won't want it.

BTW, the new charge times you're saying seems to match the Harley Livewire.

-Don-  Reno, NV