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[JaimeC]

Nah, just the $500.  It was still on the list for a Carbon, though.  It's a long story.

But that makes me wonder.. if this whole delay was because they couldn't get the 20kWh batteries imported, and the "first" Carbon Strike was sold with a 10kWh battery.. did they ever have the 20kWh pack?  How would they know the range and the weight of one if it never existed?  And if it did exist, why wasn't it sold in the first Carbon Strike?

Computer modeling

[wavelet]

Nah, just the $500.  It was still on the list for a Carbon, though.  It's a long story.

But that makes me wonder.. if this whole delay was because they couldn't get the 20kWh batteries imported, and the "first" Carbon Strike was sold with a 10kWh battery.. did they ever have the 20kWh pack?  How would they know the range and the weight of one if it never existed?  And if it did exist, why wasn't it sold in the first Carbon Strike?

Answer: Just re-read the threads in this subforum. None of the specs they published in the PR announcement March  made sense (weight, weight/cost difference between models etc.) , and the slight changes they published on their website didn't improve matters (if anything, made it worse since they're explicitly promising very expensive components). Neither does talk about a Chinese factory for high-end, low-volume sportbikes, when their assembly facility is in the US.

[HoodRichOG]

Seems to me like Energica already beat Ligthning with their next gen 20kwh battery announcement. IF pricing is the same, then why would anyone buy a Lightning?

[ultratoad]

Seems to me like Energica already beat Ligthning with their next gen 20kwh battery announcement. IF pricing is the same, then why would anyone buy a Lightning?

Agreed....  Energica seems to be seriously in the business....  Lightning not so much....

[Crilly]

If at all!

[MVetter]

Today I was laughed at for not believing that Lightning is delivering anything. Quite frankly there's been a fair amount of drama surrounding this company. I didn't even go on a crusade when I witnessed Richard personally attack my business partner, which we caught on video, this July. I've since mentioned to media publications that Lightning isn't delivering things like they claim. As a result, Richard EMAILED MY FATHER TO TRY AND SILENCE ME. Never tried to reach out to me. I was incensed by this, but decided to not drag my family into the situation.

But you know what? FUCK YOU, Richard Hatfield. I will NOT be bullied or intimidated. You don't want me to say you're incapable of delivering production bikes? Then deliver production bikes. All anyone has wanted this entire time is a cool electric motorcycle. What you've done, as far as I can tell, is take money and deliver false promises. If you don't like that, talk to me. You don't fucking scare me.

[ultrarnr]

MVetter, That is REALLY F'd up. If Lightning is really delivering anything they are keeping it a closely guarded secret. I have often wondered how does Lightning even stay in business? Obviously selling electric motorcycles isn't paying the bills. Are they big enough to be awarded CARB credits in California and therefore sell them to other companies? Are CARB credits a big money item that could keep a small business in business?

[Richard230]

MVetter, That is REALLY F'd up. If Lightning is really delivering anything they are keeping it a closely guarded secret. I have often wondered how does Lightning even stay in business? Obviously selling electric motorcycles isn't paying the bills. Are they big enough to be awarded CARB credits in California and therefore sell them to other companies? Are CARB credits a big money item that could keep a small business in business?

My Energica dealer told me a few years ago that the company made enough profit off of CA carbon credits to be able to reduce the bike's MSRP substantially. The prices suddenly dropped about $10K from 2016 to 2017, if I recall correctly. 

[JaimeC]

Out of curiosity, I went to their website.  Apparently you can PURCHASE an LS-218, but you can only RESERVE a Strike Carbon edition.  Interestingly enough, there is no mention at all of the standard Strike.  I thought they were supposed to be selling those things this summer?

It really does stink of a massive scam right now.  They might as well offer a free "Skully Helmet" to everyone who reserves a Strike Carbon at this point.

[Crissa]

Skully actually is delivering, so, even that comparison doesn't work anymore. I don't know that Skully will actually finish into a stable company, but at least there is evidence of delivering this summer.

[JaimeC]

Let's see if Lightning can beat 3D Realms' record of 14 years between a product announcement and actual delivery date (Duke Nukem Forever)...

[HoodRichOG]

MVetter, That is REALLY F'd up. If Lightning is really delivering anything they are keeping it a closely guarded secret. I have often wondered how does Lightning even stay in business? Obviously selling electric motorcycles isn't paying the bills. Are they big enough to be awarded CARB credits in California and therefore sell them to other companies? Are CARB credits a big money item that could keep a small business in business?

I think you can only get CARB credits if you sell something.

I have no idea how they are staying afloat, and I'm not saying they are using their factory as a meth lab either.

[HoodRichOG]

Today I was laughed at for not believing that Lightning is delivering anything. Quite frankly there's been a fair amount of drama surrounding this company. I didn't even go on a crusade when I witnessed Richard personally attack my business partner, which we caught on video, this July. I've since mentioned to media publications that Lightning isn't delivering things like they claim. As a result, Richard EMAILED MY FATHER TO TRY AND SILENCE ME. Never tried to reach out to me. I was incensed by this, but decided to not drag my family into the situation.

But you know what? FUCK YOU, Richard Hatfield. I will NOT be bullied or intimidated. You don't want me to say you're incapable of delivering production bikes? Then deliver production bikes. All anyone has wanted this entire time is a cool electric motorcycle. What you've done, as far as I can tell, is take money and deliver false promises. If you don't like that, talk to me. You don't fucking scare me.

What's the backstory to this?

[Doug S]

It's hard to really know what's going on there. The fact that they did build prototype bikes that kicked ass to the extent of winning the Pike's Peak hillclimb outright vouches very strongly for the company's credibility and seriousness about the endeavor....but that's really all they got so far -- a few outstanding prototypes.

Great minds, most recently notably Elon Musk, have learned the hard way that building kickass prototypes and delivering vehicles on a production basis are VERY different things. Tesla's still struggling with that last step. I'd argue that the Strike isn't heading for that level of production now, maybe not ever, so they're realistically just stepping up to a "boutique", small-scale operation, which should be less of a quantum leap. But they could be just thoroughly swamped and trying to get their heads above water even with that challenge.

Though it also wouldn't be the first company to lure in a bunch of VC money, pay themselves ridiculous salaries for a few years, and retire when the project crashes and the money runs out.

[HoodRichOG]

Though it also wouldn't be the first company to lure in a bunch of VC money, pay themselves ridiculous salaries for a few years, and retire when the project crashes and the money runs out.

When a company raises venture capital, they have to file a disclosure with the SEC.

So, it appears that money is coming from somewhere else.

That said, how much money do you need if you're not actually building anything? Making a few prototypes is just a fancy science project.