Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Too bad Energica dropped out of my local market. Not being able to service it is a huge dealbreaker.

I plan on doing all the service on my SS9 myself (unless not possible). There is a service manual available for it in PDF that explains just about everything (stuff that is not in the owner's manual).

I wish any of Energica's models appealed to me in the slightest as an owner. A PDF service manual is civilized. How did you obtain it? Simply request it as an owner? I know that not even their owners' manual is available to the public, except on purchase / by owner request.

[JaimeC]

I wish any of Energica's models appealed to me in the slightest as an owner. A PDF service manual is civilized. How did you obtain it? Simply request it as an owner? I know that not even their owners' manual is available to the public, except on purchase / by owner request.

I know just what you mean.  For an Italian company, their styling is remarkably unattractive...  Most Italian motorcycles are works of art (except for Ducati's Terblanche era).

[DonTom]

I wish any of Energica's models appealed to me in the slightest as an owner. A PDF service manual is civilized. How did you obtain it? Simply request it as an owner? I know that not even their owners' manual is available to the public, except on purchase / by owner request.

I simply asked Cal-Moto to email me the Service Manual and it was in my mailbox by the time I hung up the telephone.

The owner's manual (real paper book) comes with the bike, but it is also available in PDF. Basic maintenance stuff is NOT in it, such as how to change the oil/coolant. All that is in the service manual only.

What is it that you don't like about the Energicas?  It's my favorite bike out of my ten for most of my riding. I find the short range not to be much of an issue compared to the long charge times of the Zeros. I like to stop once an hour anyway and CCS chargers are located all over the major freeways and hwys (except eastern NV!). Now that they have such in Grass Valley, I sometimes take Hwy 20 between here and Auburn, with a side route through Willow Valley.

Nevertheless, I would still prefer more range and would love to have that 21 KWH battery in mine, especially if it can charge at closer to 50 KW.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I wish any of Energica's models appealed to me in the slightest as an owner. A PDF service manual is civilized. How did you obtain it? Simply request it as an owner? I know that not even their owners' manual is available to the public, except on purchase / by owner request.

I simply asked Cal-Moto to email me the Service Manual and it was in my mailbox by the time I hung up the telephone.

The owner's manual (real paper book) comes with the bike, but it is also available in PDF. Basic maintenance stuff is NOT in it, such as how to change the oil/coolant. All that is in the service manual only.

That's interesting. I've received through "sneakernet" a copy of the owner's manual and found it pretty full compared to Zero's but yes it does stop short of common maintenance tasks, oddly. It also doesn't describe high-voltage systems / powertrain, but that doesn't surprise me because of the professional certification required.

What is it that you don't like about the Energicas?  It's my favorite bike out of my ten for most of my riding. I find the short range not to be much of an issue compared to the long charge times of the Zeros. I like to stop once an hour anyway and CCS chargers are located all over the major freeways and hwys (except eastern NV!). Now that they have such in Grass Valley, I sometimes take Hwy 20 between here and Auburn, with a side route through Willow Valley.

Nevertheless, I would still prefer more range and would love to have that 21 KWH battery in mine, especially if it can charge at closer to 50 KW.

The mass is just too much to deal with for where I live, on a steep and craggy hill with bad pavement. Even my garage floor is slanted.


I don't like the complication of the gearbox, sump, and chain. I don't need those things, and Energica's priorities mean for now that those are standard across the product line.


I don't need or want the power that Energica offers. I literally would find the bike more valuable with lower power output.


I don't feel as secure with the 3-year warranty on the Energica battery, and the relative opacity they've shown regarding their powertrain internals. I realize that their fast charging rate probably relates to that, which is enviable, but it's not a tradeoff that seems right if Zero is an option.


Energica does not offer hard luggage options or luggage racks. This is a real deal-breaker, if for no other reason than my passenger/pillion will have nowhere to put their things or nowhere to rest their back when I open the throttle. Energica bikes are not really made for 2-up riding.


Finally, Energica is a racing/track-centric company, which is fine, and honestly their product line is great for what it is. But it's not for me. That racing/track DNA is to me quite visible even in the SS9 and I can't shake the impression that Energica will probably never understand my concerns more than, say, Ducati. To explain, Ducati has taken two decades to slowly make its bikes more friendly to the low-key daily rider, and the fact is that's not where their heart is, and it shows. I would expect not much different from Energica.


I have plenty of things to find frustrating about owning a Zero and dealing with them as a company, but for all of that, they produce a bike that is the closest to my market position: focus on daily+utility riding with enough fun to accentuate the ride when the road allows, and a simple, repairable, serviceable platform that I can depend on improving for the road, not the track. The SR/F isn't a model for me, for example, but the platform is commendable. I want them to meet and exceed 20kWh, have some DC fast-charging solution, and build some fairing support into the frame. And I want less power than the SR/F, which sounds ridiculous, but I'll point out that insurance charges a lot based on the maximum performance of the vehicle, which factors into the total cost of ownership.

[DonTom]

The mass is just too much to deal with for where I live, on a steep and craggy hill with bad pavement. Even my garage floor is slanted.

The Energicas have a reverse and slow forward. Both are at 1.75 MPH at WOT and I have found this makes the bike easier to deal with than the lighter Zeros, by far. My Auburn house only has about a foot of level space in front of the garage. Bringing the Zero back is a hassle (because many other bikes in the garage). No hassle at all with my Energica.

I don't like the complication of the gearbox, sump, and chain. I don't need those things, and Energica's priorities mean for now that those are standard across the product line.

I prefer the chain to a belt. Belts sometimes break with no warning. That doesn't happen with chains these days.

I don't need or want the power that Energica offers. I literally would find the bike more valuable with lower power output.

Use Urban mode. It will be much like a Zero SR in Sport. Want even less, use eco mode. Want even less, use rain mode. Regen  is independent from mode selection. But "low" seems like a bit too much to me when on the freeways, so I keep it off on the hilly part of I-80. The bike coasts a lot better than a Zero.

I don't feel as secure with the 3-year warranty on the Energica battery, and the relative opacity they've shown regarding their powertrain internals. I realize that their fast charging rate probably relates to that, which is enviable, but it's not a tradeoff that seems right if Zero is an option.

Yep, no doubt it has to do with the 25 KW CCS charging. But there is always the choice to use a J1772.

Energica does not offer hard luggage options or luggage racks. This is a real deal-breaker, if for no other reason than my passenger/pillion will have nowhere to put their things or nowhere to rest their back when I open the throttle. Energica bikes are not really made for 2-up riding.

Yeah, no travel trunk available, AFAIK.  But the side cases open up very  wide when they are unzipped for more room. They hold a lot more than they look like they will.

Finally, Energica is a racing/track-centric company, which is fine, and honestly their product line is great for what it is. But it's not for me. That racing/track DNA is to me quite visible even in the SS9 and I can't shake the impression that Energica will probably never understand my concerns more than, say, Ducati. To explain, Ducati has taken two decades to slowly make its bikes more friendly to the low-key daily rider, and the fact is that's not where their heart is, and it shows. I would expect not much different from Energica.

Yeah, it's hard for me to believe that their other two bikes are even faster than mine. Mine is scary fast as it is in Sport. It's already ridiculously fast and their other two bikes are beyond that. My normal riding is in Urban mode and that is still very fast.

I have plenty of things to find frustrating about owning a Zero and dealing with them as a company, but for all of that, they produce a bike that is the closest to my market position: focus on daily+utility riding with enough fun to accentuate the ride when the road allows, and a simple, repairable, serviceable platform that I can depend on improving for the road, not the track. The SR/F isn't a model for me, for example, but the platform is commendable. I want them to meet and exceed 20kWh, have some DC fast-charging solution, and build some fairing support into the frame. And I want less power than the SR/F, which sounds ridiculous, but I'll point out that insurance charges a lot based on the maximum performance of the vehicle, which factors into the total cost of ownership.

I cannot see less power being an advantage when we can set it to anything we want, other than perhaps the cost of the insurance, which isn't that much of an issue to me. I have 16 vehicles to keep insured and I really don't keep track of the costs. I am not rich or anything, but quite comfortable. I retired in the top one percent  of retired incomes--from my job there in San Francisco!  I worked for 34 years as an Emergency Radio Systems Technician for the City & County  of SF . The last 15 years I worked nights at the 9-1-1 Center on Turk Street, waiting for things to break, as I watched movies, played around on the web and other such hard work. A genuine sinecure.  I had no bosses on the site, so I mainly did whatever I wanted until something broke.

At the time, I lived in SSF. Sold that dumpy house and bought a mansion (by comparison) in Auburn and a couple of more houses here in Reno (other 18 miles NW of here in Cold Spring Valley).

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The mass is just too much to deal with for where I live, on a steep and craggy hill with bad pavement. Even my garage floor is slanted.

The Energicas have a reverse and slow forward. Both are at 1.75 MPH at WOT and I have found this makes the bike easier to deal with than the lighter Zeros, by far. My Auburn house only has about a foot of level space in front of the garage. Bringing the Zero back is a hassle (because many other bikes in the garage). No hassle at all with my Energica.

Good for you. I have/had a reverse gear on my Zero and preferred it, but the bike was still not easy to handle, and it was not pleasant in a near-drop or post-drop situation. The SS9 would weigh at least 100lbs more than my bike did. I don't look forward to that.

I don't need or want the power that Energica offers. I literally would find the bike more valuable with lower power output.

Use Urban mode. It will be much like a Zero SR in Sport. Want even less, use eco mode. Want even less, use rain mode. Regen  is independent from mode selection. But "low" seems like a bit too much to me when on the freeways, so I keep it off on the hilly part of I-80. The bike coasts a lot better than a Zero.

That does not change the fact that the insurance is higher, and it invalidates the point of all that excess weight, to justify the power. The bike just has a lot of excess.

I don't feel as secure with the 3-year warranty on the Energica battery, and the relative opacity they've shown regarding their powertrain internals. I realize that their fast charging rate probably relates to that, which is enviable, but it's not a tradeoff that seems right if Zero is an option.

Yep, no doubt it has to do with the 25 KW CCS charging. But there is always the choice to use a J1772.

You're saying that 3kW AC charging is somehow an excuse to own an Energica, despite the shorter battery warranty even if I do that. That's silly.


You don't have to reply to all my comments. I'm not replying to all of yours.

Energica does not offer hard luggage options or luggage racks. This is a real deal-breaker, if for no other reason than my passenger/pillion will have nowhere to put their things or nowhere to rest their back when I open the throttle. Energica bikes are not really made for 2-up riding.

Yeah, no travel trunk available, AFAIK.  But the side cases open up very  wide when they are unzipped for more room. They hold a lot more than they look like they will.

That's not hard luggage, period, which makes it weather-vulnerable and less secure. And there's no top case, which is more important than side cases both for storage and keeping a passenger from falling off. Still a deal-breaker for me, and there's nothing for you to respond about.

I have plenty of things to find frustrating about owning a Zero and dealing with them as a company, but for all of that, they produce a bike that is the closest to my market position: focus on daily+utility riding with enough fun to accentuate the ride when the road allows, and a simple, repairable, serviceable platform that I can depend on improving for the road, not the track. The SR/F isn't a model for me, for example, but the platform is commendable. I want them to meet and exceed 20kWh, have some DC fast-charging solution, and build some fairing support into the frame. And I want less power than the SR/F, which sounds ridiculous, but I'll point out that insurance charges a lot based on the maximum performance of the vehicle, which factors into the total cost of ownership.

I cannot see less power being an advantage when we can set it to anything we want, other than perhaps the cost of the insurance, which isn't that much of an issue to me. I have 16 vehicles to keep insured and I really don't keep track of the costs. I am not rich or anything, but quite comfortable. I retired in the top one percent  of retired incomes--from my job there in San Francisco!  I worked for 34 years as an Emergency Radio Systems Technician for the City & County  of SF . The last 15 years I worked nights at the 9-1-1 Center on Turk Street, waiting for things to break, as I watched movies, played around on the web and other such hard work. A genuine sinecure.  I had no bosses on the site, so I mainly did whatever I wanted until something broke.

At the time, I lived in SSF. Sold that dumpy house and bought a mansion (by comparison) in Auburn and a couple of more houses here in Reno (other 18 miles NW of here in Cold Spring Valley).

Good for you for cashing out and not having to worry about money. I don't have that privilege. I'm younger (42) and struggling to have a place with a decent garage at all. I can't even imagine owning 16 vehicles, and neither can most people below 45 any more. Remember that when dishing out bike recommendations.

[Crissa]

Yeah, I didn't want to say that, Brian.

The dream 'next bike' is probably an Energica for my spouse, but... Cost will make that really, really improbable.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

I have/had a reverse gear on my Zero and preferred it,

I too prefer my Zeros for most of my riding, just not all. BTW, I would like to know how you did your reverse in your Zeros. I may wanna do the same with my SR.

That does not change the fact that the insurance is higher, and it invalidates the point of all that excess weight, to justify the power. The bike just has a lot of excess.

Seems very light after I ride my Harley (around 1,000 lbs)!  But sure, there are some bikes I would not want for some areas, including the hills of SF. BTW, Richard said the same thing here about the SS9 "Too much of everything except range".

You're saying that 3kW AC charging is somehow an excuse to own an Energica, despite the shorter battery warranty even if I do that. That's silly.

Nope. I am only saying the battery will last longer if only Level Two charging is used. I would assume much longer than the warranty. Even the Energica manual says use L2 when there is a choice.

Good for you for cashing out and not having to worry about money. I don't have that privilege. I'm younger (42) and struggling to have a place with a decent garage at all. I can't even imagine owning 16 vehicles, and neither can most people below 45 any more. Remember that when dishing out bike recommendations.

I never felt that I was giving out any recommendations. I was simply explaining how I see things for my needs / wants and well understand your needs may be a lot different. We are all going to decide for ourselves, of course. There are many models of bikes for a reason. There are many that other people love that I will not even look at,  and vice versa. I understand that as well as anybody.
Yeah, I know finding a garage in SF is a hassle. Even a lot of the houses there have no garage and those who have one to rent make a bundle. I have known people in SF who had to rent a garage. SF is a ridiculously expensive place to live, when it comes to housing.

I am now headed for Auburn, now that PG& E won't be turning off the AC power for a while (going by looking at the weather reports)  Leaving on my little Kaw 650  ICE bike. I need to give them all some exercise before the gas goes bad.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Agsurf5]

Just got a 2018 FX and resurfacing this thread from original questionL
Does anyone know what the equivalent custom settings are for factory ECO and Sport mode?  Specifically in regards to an FX/FXS.