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[remmie]

I got my rapid charger installed today on my premium SR/F.

Attached you see a picture with the rapid charger installed and the tank plastics still off. Now a big mess of cables and chargers
Also a picture of the resulting "storage" compartment which is only big enough for a disc lock or a phone or similar. The height is about 35 to 40 mm.
The OBD connector and the  usb ports are located in this "storage" area.

The mechanic was very helpfull and let me watch most of the install. It took about 4 hours because it was his first one.
After the installation i first tried a 3 phase 11kW charge station and there it charged at a nice 9.2 kW (into the battery) which is very good and expected.
(1 charger of 3kW is attached to phase 1, the other 3kW charger on phase 2 and the rapid charger is connected to phase 3).

Normally at 230V each 3kW charger puts 29 amps into the battery and the dash indicates 2.8 kW of power.

At a 11 kW charging station both 3kW chargers are topped out at 13A at 230V and deliver 29 amps each into the battery. The rapid charger uses 26A from the 230V and can deliver 59 amps at maximum. But at a 11kW charging station the rapid charger " only" does 3.7 kW (230V*16A)

The dash indicated 9.2 kW so the rapid charger did (9.2 - 2.8 -2.8 =) 3.6 kW so right on the money for a 11 kW station.

Then I rode for a bit on the freeway home and stopped at a fast charger (43kW) to try the full power of the rapid charger.
I stopped at 48% and after connecting it charged with 110 Amps and 11.5 kW into the battery NICEEEEEEEEEE!!!!! The indicated charging time at this point was 30 minutes. Now thats more like it

It kept charging at 11.5 kW right up to 95% which was reached after 26 minutes (3 min remaining charging time on dash)
at 96% it charged 10.4 kW
at 97% it charged 8.9 kW
at 98% it charged 8.0 kW
at 99% it charged 6.8 kW
at 100% it was still 5.5 kW
after 10 minutes on 100% the bike shut off and was full.Si it took 40 min to fully charge from a 48% battery
The charging station indicated 6.36 kWh delivered to the bike which sounds about right for the 12.6 kWh usable energy of the 14.4 Battery

All in all very pleased! Now to find a suitable place to store that type2-type2 cable somewhere other than in a backpack

Technically it IS a 12kW charger because it draws 12kW from the "wall" but only 11.5 kW gets into the battery. Maybe i will claim a 5% discount for the "lost" charging power LOL 
 

[remmie]

some more pictures

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

It's nice to see that in the field, finally.

The "shelf" sized storage compartment looks just big enough for a phone and a spare battery. At that point, one might just want to run a wire out into a tankbag or something.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

In your extra photo with the tank lifted, you can see what seems to be the MBB on the right side of the tank area, with the connector edge facing forward. I believe that'll put the DC-DC converter on the left side.

They'll hopefully be warm next to the charger, and dry under the tank. The prior location of these two components made them more vulnerable to moisture and dirt thrown up from the road.

The cabling behind the "charge tank" looks a bit crowded, but we don't have a comparison shot with a stock bike so it's hard to say which cables are non-stock.

[Shadow]

...
It kept charging at 11.5 kW right up to 95% which was reached after 26 minutes (3 min remaining charging time on dash)
at 96% it charged 10.4 kW
at 97% it charged 8.9 kW
at 98% it charged 8.0 kW
at 99% it charged 6.8 kW
at 100% it was still 5.5 kW
after 10 minutes on 100% the bike shut off and was full.Si it took 40 min to fully charge from a 48% battery
...

Very nice data, thanks for taking the time to list and share this information. If you are able, it would be also interesting to know how does the bike charge at a (43kW) fast charging station from when the bike is run out of usable battery power. Knowing the pack temperature and amps going into the battery pack during the full charging cycle is very interesting to all with the same ZForce module (S/DS and SR/F).

[enaef]

Thanks remmie for the information!

Did the handling (feeling while driving) change after the installation?
How heavy is the charger?

[DonTom]

...
It kept charging at 11.5 kW right up to 95% which was reached after 26 minutes (3 min remaining charging time on dash)
at 96% it charged 10.4 kW
at 97% it charged 8.9 kW
at 98% it charged 8.0 kW
at 99% it charged 6.8 kW
at 100% it was still 5.5 kW
after 10 minutes on 100% the bike shut off and was full.Si it took 40 min to fully charge from a 48% battery
...

Very nice data, thanks for taking the time to list and share this information. If you are able, it would be also interesting to know how does the bike charge at a (43kW) fast charging station from when the bike is run out of usable battery power. Knowing the pack temperature and amps going into the battery pack during the full charging cycle is very interesting to all with the same ZForce module (S/DS and SR/F).

I wonder if you or somebody can explain something that I have always been curious about. We all know that the KWs drop down at the end, regardless of charger used. My question is why is such necessary on a smaller charger?


What I would like to know is why when using a smaller charger that is cable of say, 6 KW will drop to a KW or so in that last 2% when a larger charger, such as shown above will drop to 8KW on the same battery. With all the programming and stuff that goes in to these chargers, I assume the charger can programmed to do almost anything reasonable.

So my question is this: If an 8KW charge is safe from a 12 kw CHARGER on a 14KWH battery at the last 2% SOC when a larger charger is used, how cannot it NOT also be safe to charge the exact same battery at 6KW all the way to a full charge? Why does there have to be a power  drop at 99% from a charger than can only do 6 KW to begin with?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Charging at a certain power level pushes current into the battery. Current applied over a resistive element (like the internal resistance of cells) incurs a voltage differential.

So, for 6kW, you have 52A running into a ~114V DC battery. Those 52A will probably incur a 2V voltage lift in the cells, which you will see in any reading of battery voltage.

Charging taper occurs because that voltage with the lift is used as the limit to regulate charging. We don't want to exceed the normal cell limits for voltage while charging.

The static limit for the Zero pack is 116.2V (or 116.4V in another reading), and the contactor limit is 117V and the controller limit is 118V.

When the charger sees more than 116.4V (which will include the lift that is directly caused by the amount of charging), it will reduce charging by a controlled rate until voltage is at or below 116.4V.

Lift is roughly proportional to current/power, so you get a roughly linear reduction in power as SoC approaches 100%.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Basically, if you charged at 8kW without a CV mode at the end, voltage would overshoot the contactor limit, so the battery pack would open the contactor with almost 70A going through it. That'll damage the contactor, and you wouldn't have reached 100% SoC.

[DonTom]

Basically, if you charged at 8kW without a CV mode at the end, voltage would overshoot the contactor limit, so the battery pack would open the contactor with almost 70A going through it. That'll damage the contactor, and you wouldn't have reached 100% SoC.

Sounds like you're saying the stock 12 KW charger is not a good idea anywhere because "at 98% it charged 8.0 kW".

Why is more KW allowed near full charge but ONLY  when you start with a larger charger to begin with?  They all drop off in KW at 98% no matter how low you start with, why?

Even the stock 1.3 KW OBC on my SR will drop the KW near the end at 98% SOC. If 8 KW charging is okay with  the stock 12KW charge tank, why does running the OBC  alone at 1.3 KW  also need to drop below 1.3KW at 98% SOC?

IOW, how can 8KW be okay when 1.3 KW is not?


-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The % SoC indication is synthetic. It is composed of a function applied to a time series (and its derivative), with a feedback loop for calibration to the riding style and conditions.

In short, I don’t know what voltage %SoC corresponds to in that table, and I would only answer questions about charge rate versus voltage, and not about SoC.

That’s why I’m not talking about that data, because it’s at least potentially misleading but it’s definitely not comparable to another bike.

[DonTom]

The % SoC indication is synthetic.

I think that explains my confusion. I should be looking at the battery voltage to compare, not the KW @ any shown SOC, as the displayed SOC reads  differently when charged on more powerful chargers.

IOW, a 98% SOC with a 12 KW charger is different from a 98% SOC on a 1kw charger. Is that correct?

If so, it explained everything, thanks. 

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

SoC is not an objectively comparable metric in any way.

The same SoC on the same bike at two different times on the same day probably represents two completely different battery states.

No statement about a value indicated for SoC and a value in another metric or dimension is reasonably comparable or correlatable.

SoC is only meaningful as a dynamic indication for the operator. It is not a piece of data, and it is not a measurement.

[DonTom]

SoC is not an objectively comparable metric in any way.

The same SoC on the same bike at two different times on the same day probably represents two completely different battery states.

No statement about a value indicated for SoC and a value in another metric or dimension is reasonably comparable or correlatable.

SoC is only meaningful as a dynamic indication for the operator. It is not a piece of data, and it is not a measurement.

I recall in the unofficial manual there is a chart that shows SOC and shows the battery voltage for those percentages. Is that just an average or what?

Oh, I just noticed the "This is a rough guide to correlating at rest battery voltage to the state of charge. "

So now I understand. I should not use SOC for any technical comparisons. Thanks again.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Yeah, that guide is really vague and even debatable for what it intends to solve, which is roadside assistance. I would reproduce that chart with fuzzy error bounds if I can make it legible.