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[Doug S]

A battery redesign won't be cheap.  Let Harley and Energica be test rabbits for the long term
effects on the battery from fast charging in the real world.

I'm an EE and I get that. The battery isn't actually a very difficult redesign, it's the motor and controller that would consume the most design time.

But they're going to have to do it, and the sooner the better. Energica and Harley already have it, and it's going to be very important very soon. 6kW charging is barely adequate now, it's not going to cut it in just a couple of years.

Tesla has far more data on fast-charging EV batteries than any electric motorcycle company ever will have, and by all accounts it's fine, especially if only on an occasional basis. As long as the battery temperature doesn't rise to unhealthy levels, no damage occurs.

[DonTom]

There could be a whole new battery tech by the time CCS really starts gearing up.  I still prefer the idea of 400 miles range and no charging
till I get there. 

That's not an issue to me. I like to stop about every hour anyway. I mainly bought my Energica to ride between Reno and Auburn. Even when I take an ICE bike, I stop around mid way for a short ten minute or so break.

On the way to Auburn from here, there is a CCS charge station about every 20 miles. Now there is also one on Hwy 20 in Grass Valley and I prefer going that way when I have the time.

Going either way, a 15 minute charge stop in KingVale, CA is more than enough.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

Doug S, I know your an EE that's why I want you to fix all this stuff. 

Now Tesla is a whole other beast with all it's liquid cooling so how well it can handle fast charging is it's own thing.
The bikes are still pretty young and Harley isn't even out there yet.  All I'm saying is I see Zero's dilemma.
The west coast is well covered for CCS but look in the midwest and southeast and you'll see huge gaps even for level 2.
Will Zero find they need cooling for fast charging with their current cells?  I'd say likely as they would over heat with the 10kW Diginows
if pushed too hard, and that's more cost.
If you really want a lot of people to own this type of bike you need to get it closer to $10k for a full spec bike.
I think some of the LW guys will be very limited to a handful of routes that they can connect enough CCS stations to get them very far.

DonTom I looked up your route on Google, that looks like a real nice ride.

[Doug S]

Doug S, I know your an EE that's why I want you to fix all this stuff. 

You have no idea how much I'd love to! My dream job is working on EVs of one sort of another. I truly do believe they're a big part of saving this planet from us.

Yeah, heat is clearly the issue. But don't fall into the trap some people do of thinking that "water cooling good, air cooling bad". In a water-cooled system, water does NOT actually cool anything. It just moves the heat from wherever it's generated (cylinder head, battery bank, whatever) to a radiator, where it's ultimately dissipated into the airstream just like an air-cooled system. Air-cooled systems are lighter, simpler, far more reliable, less susceptible to high ambient air temps in some cases (it's true), cheaper and can cool just as well if properly designed. They even usually have less aerodynamic drag than a big draggy radiator. There are good reasons water-cooling has never had much presence in aircraft.

[Curt]

It's hard to believe we're talking about features on a model that would be five years from when I got an FX. Seems like yesterday.

Here is my wish list for 2021 FX:

More power at slow speed
  (Better wheelies in ludicrous mode)

Progressive regen instead of on/off
  (For brake application and for coasting throttle roll-off)

Keyless proximity fob
  Radius 8 ft

Traction control

Charge at somewhat higher rate than 650W
  Maybe 800W or 1000W (A/C inlet already gets quite hot)
  Easy-to-replace C14 inlet module

Less/no delay from sidestand-up to throttle operable

Stronger sidestand

Belt tension fine adjustment screws (L and R)
  that don't require loosening axle or adjuster lock nuts

App features when connected via Bluetooth
  Firmware version info
  Firmware update
  Auto clock set (at least, fix any drift of 15 min or less)

Helmet lock
  Small metal loop for padlock
  (Could be integrated as part of rack)

Another 11% battery update, at least for non-modular
  ZF8.0 large battery. Modular could still be 2 x ZF3.6.
  (Why shouldn't a single large battery have a little more space than two small?)

Button to move in reverse at 1/2 MPH

Slightly different front fender shape
  To stop water shooting over

Display
  Show battery voltage
  Show regen Wh/mi (perhaps as negative number)

Hold J. Juan to better standards or drop them
  (Break pad fit problems, small replacement parts unavailable)

Non-squealing OEM brake pads

All LED lighting (super-bright high beam)

Full automatic self-driving with flywheel balancing
  (Just checking if you're still reading)

[Moto7575]

For the front fender there is an easy fix : buy (30$) a ZeroS fender on af1racing and mount it under the stock fender.

It's hard to believe we're talking about features on a model that would be five years from when I got an FX. Seems like yesterday.

Here is my wish list for 2021 FX:

More power at slow speed
  (Better wheelies in ludicrous mode)

Progressive regen instead of on/off
  (For brake application and for coasting throttle roll-off)

Keyless proximity fob
  Radius 8 ft

Traction control

Charge at somewhat higher rate than 650W
  Maybe 800W or 1000W (A/C inlet already gets quite hot)
  Easy-to-replace C14 inlet module

Less/no delay from sidestand-up to throttle operable

Stronger sidestand

Belt tension fine adjustment screws (L and R)
  that don't require loosening axle or adjuster lock nuts

App features when connected via Bluetooth
  Firmware version info
  Firmware update
  Auto clock set (at least, fix any drift of 15 min or less)

Helmet lock
  Small metal loop for padlock
  (Could be integrated as part of rack)

Another 11% battery update, at least for non-modular
  ZF8.0 large battery. Modular could still be 2 x ZF3.6.
  (Why shouldn't a single large battery have a little more space than two small?)

Button to move in reverse at 1/2 MPH

Slightly different front fender shape
  To stop water shooting over

Display
  Show battery voltage
  Show regen Wh/mi (perhaps as negative number)

Hold J. Juan to better standards or drop them
  (Break pad fit problems, small replacement parts unavailable)

Non-squealing OEM brake pads

All LED lighting (super-bright high beam)

Full automatic self-driving with flywheel balancing
  (Just checking if you're still reading)

[alko]

Being able to adjust regen while riding would be nice. Having to stop and connect to the app is nonsense.

Also would like level 3 charger since that's the most common station in my area, and the easiest to use. No membership required, just use a debit/credit like any gas station.

I've heard people say how expensive it is to use L3 charge stations, so what does it cost to charge at the electrify America stations? If it's comparable to the price of fuel, I wouldnt be concerned.

[Richard230]

Being able to adjust regen while riding would be nice. Having to stop and connect to the app is nonsense.

Also would like level 3 charger since that's the most common station in my area, and the easiest to use. No membership required, just use a debit/credit like any gas station.

I've heard people say how expensive it is to use L3 charge stations, so what does it cost to charge at the electrify America stations? If it's comparable to the price of fuel, I wouldnt be concerned.

Regarding altering regen drag:  On my Zero S, all you have to do is to toggle a button on the right handlebar to move from eco, to sport, to custom settings, which will change regen and power settings as soon as the throttle is shut, assuming that you have your custom program set differently than the other two factory settings. That seems like a reasonable number of choices considering the relatively minor differences between zero and maximum regen braking of the factory Zero settings. I really like that system as you don't have to look at a screen or come to a stop to change regen and power settings.

[dvdt]

As noted above, some sort of reverse (backing up my steep driveway into my garage may be good exercise, but I'd rather find another way). I spoke to a Zero rep at the SRF intro who indicated that factory options for a center stand and accessory lighting were coming (for the SRF), but as those haven't rolled out yet please add those to the 2021 wish list (and to other versions).

Something I have run afoul of a couple of times even in the temperate Bay area --- active temperature control of the battery when plugged in. I understand that charging would be unsafe at low temperatures, but having a built-in resistive heater to boot strap the process to get the battery to minimum temperature on a cold morning to permit safe charging would be great. After commuting to work in Decembers past and needing to resort to heating pads and hair dryers to coax the process along to commute home sometime before spring, I would want an integrated function in a new motorcycle.

A directional audio sound to alert drivers immediately ahead that someone lane splitting will be alongside them soon would be welcome. This should have a tight angular distribution forward, and needn't be grossly loud even in that lobe, but I anticipate it would be useful. If nothing else, it would warn bicyclists (I've had to call out 'on your left' to alert chatting side by side cyclists who didn't hear my approach) and pedestrians.

[DonTom]

I've heard people say how expensive it is to use L3 charge stations, so what does it cost to charge at the electrify America stations? If it's comparable to the price of fuel, I wouldnt be concerned.

If it's done correctly even fast charging can be cheaper than gas. Don't charge above 80% unless you need to when at a fast charger.  And even that can be made up for when charging at home and the many free J-1772 stations in many areas.

If you pay $4.00 per month to EA, the rate per minute is cheaper and you save the one dollar just to activate the machine. So if it's always cheaper or not depends on many factors.

I pay the $4.00 per month even if I never use it. But I will not miss $4.00 per month. But if I use it there times per month, I come out ahead.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

The SR/F supposedly has ten Custom settings you can toggle through which all could have different regens.

Also, a variable regen brake lever would be an awesome addition for hill riding

-Crissa

[AutoE]

IMHO, REPAIRING 10,000 BIKES. They can start with those is Israel, none of which seem to have made it past 35,000-40,000 miles without major breakdown.

[Crissa]

IMHO, REPAIRING

Do you have a citation for that?

You should make its own thread for it.  Everyone else seems to be having no trouble getting spare parts or warrantee repairs; that an importer fell down is not unprecedented.

-Crissa

[remmie]

The SR/F supposedly has ten Custom settings you can toggle through which all could have different regens.

Also, a variable regen brake lever would be an awesome addition for hill riding

-Crissa

On the SR/F the regen is proportional to the throttle position and not just on/off like on the other models (S/SR/DS/DSR/FX/FXS). Just set the custom mode to max regen and you have single pedel driving. You can coast by holding the throttle at (let's say) 10%, if you then set the throttle to 5% the regen is at 50% of the maximum amount you have set it at in the settings. At throttle close the regen is at it's maximum setting for the mode.

When touching the brake lever (just a bit so the brake light switch is activated but the pads do not touch the disc yet)  the regen becomes even stronger (if you have set it that way in the settings).

I personly have set all setting to maximum (power,speed,neutral regen and brake regen) and I hardly have to use the brake pads at all. just using the regen or lightly using the brake lever slows the bike down like you have a 1500 cc one-cylinder

The SR/F indeed can contain 10 custom riding modes but unfortunately there can be only 1 custom mode loaded into the memory. So to change between custom modes you would have to do that via the smartphone app


I'm not sure if this is possible with the sevcon controller but if it is, it is surely something that could easily be implemented for all previous generations

[valnar]

Here is my wish list for 2021 FX:

Traction control

Charge at somewhat higher rate than 650W
  Maybe 800W or 1000W (A/C inlet already gets quite hot)

I agree with these.  I ended up waiting until now to get my 2020 FXS and I was so hoping these would be in there.  Why not max out a 20A circuit?!