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Author Topic: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.  (Read 2631 times)

Булгаков

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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #15 on: November 08, 2019, 12:23:49 AM »

I pulled apart the previous log files to make it a bit easier to parse.

I initially dumped all logs after connecting to the BMS, as seen here:
http://mx2.raapid.net/fileshare2/zerologs/dumpall-1.txt

I then ran a reset, and noticed that it had problems booting up apparently:
http://mx2.raapid.net/fileshare2/zerologs/reset-1_reboot_1.txt

------
 - Checking EEPROM............................
ERROR: EEPROM Self Test Failed To Read Stats Signature at Address 0x0000000E
 FAILED
 - Checking Chassis Isolation ................ Okay
DEBUG: 1572974447181  ..\src\Application\zero_bms_self_test.c         : line  1653 - SelfTest Failed. Flags: 0x0020
EEPROM Self Test FAILED
ERROR: Startup Failed: ( code: -26 ) - EEPROM Self-Test Failed
EEPROM Self Test FAILED
Halting

ZERO BMS> DEBUG: 1572974447262  ..\src\Application\zero_bms_can.c               : line  1509 - CAN0 FORM error
-----

Inputs, Config look okay after the reset though:
http://mx2.raapid.net/fileshare2/zerologs/inputs-2_reboot_1.txt

http://mx2.raapid.net/fileshare2/zerologs/config-2_reboot_1.txt

But the BMS is complaining that it has shutdown:
---snip--
  Charger Disables:
  - BMS has shut down due to errors

  Warnings and Errors:
  - Self Test failed the last time it was run
  - Current Sensor calibration has not been set.
  - BMS has internally disabled the system (exit to bootloader, or test mode).
----snip---
http://mx2.raapid.net/fileshare2/zerologs/status-2_reboot_1.txt



And the outputs confirm that the BMS has disabled basically everything else:
http://mx2.raapid.net/fileshare2/zerologs/outputs-2_reboot_1.txt

And here are the full errorlogdump and eventlogdump command outputs after the reset:
http://mx2.raapid.net/fileshare2/zerologs/errorlogdump-2_reboot_1.txt

http://mx2.raapid.net/fileshare2/zerologs/eventlogdump-2_reboot_1.txt

Does anyone have any idea if it's possible to restore the flash or otherwise resolve the EEPROM errors?
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2014 Zero 11.4

Crissa

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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #16 on: November 08, 2019, 03:26:20 AM »

It sounds to me like a component level failure.  A sensor failure would make the BMS decide it was unsafe to operate.

-Crissa
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2014 Zero S ZF8.5

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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #17 on: November 13, 2019, 03:22:53 AM »

Now that you've separated all the log outputs, try forwarding it to Zero customer service in case they can corroborate.

Your cell voltages are at least in a nice place at the last reading.

Aside: I wish I could say whether those several PL536 failures are worth serious consideration or ignorable at the rate they're occurring.

(Now I'm regretting not documenting the BMS console commands while I still had a working bike. I'll see if I can get that from past notes and files.)

Overall, the reboot failure would (to me) indicate the need for a BMS replacement, assuming you've already disconnected the onboard charger and maybe other systems.
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togo

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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #18 on: November 14, 2019, 06:05:46 AM »

I have a similar vintage Zero, a 14 SR, and I had to replace the BMS board a few months back after it went from powered to unpowered coasting on US101 at SSF.  Luckily I was able to coast to the side of the freeway and push it back the onramp.

Zero dealer SFMOTO took care of it, but it cost a good chunk of change once labor was included. 
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Булгаков

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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #19 on: November 14, 2019, 06:13:56 AM »

Now that you've separated all the log outputs, try forwarding it to Zero customer service in case they can corroborate.

Your cell voltages are at least in a nice place at the last reading.

Aside: I wish I could say whether those several PL536 failures are worth serious consideration or ignorable at the rate they're occurring.

(Now I'm regretting not documenting the BMS console commands while I still had a working bike. I'll see if I can get that from past notes and files.)

Overall, the reboot failure would (to me) indicate the need for a BMS replacement, assuming you've already disconnected the onboard charger and maybe other systems.

Good evening -- I appreciate your input on this. I have not forwarded the logs yet to Zero customer service department yet, but I will put that on my to-do list. The bike got dropped off at the local dealer last Friday (the 8th) but they have historically had lots of problems working on Zero bikes, and apparently as well with successfully communicating with Zero tech support many times in the past (both the factory and the dealer have pointed fingers at each other claiming that the other won't return calls), so I am not very hopeful.

Today the dealer said he'll try to contact Zero, we'll see. If they're unable to make progress I may take the bike back and try to get a truck and take it to a dealer in another city.

The last time I spoke with Zero customer service they referred me to the local dealer even when I had explained this problem before, so I was under the impression that they were no longer accepting calls from customers and instead are communicating only with dealers, which is a shame.

I have not found hardly any info about the PL536 errors when I have tried to google them. Any thoughts what could cause this problem? The bike already had the BMS replaced once, a month after I bought it, and had more BMS errors later on again that the dealer said was related to a loose connector, but they haven't been able to update the firmware when I've brought it to them before.

The on-board charger (and the Y-cable for the QuiQ chargers) were both disconnected, with no difference.

Do you know if Zero considers the BMS board to be covered under the "battery warranty" ? I certainly hope so!

Has anyone else had more than one BMS board replaced?

The only thing non-OEM about my bike has been quick charging (EVTricity charger) through a (fused) quick-charge cable attached to the controller terminals in conjunction with using QuiQ chargers on the factory accessory charge port, but no overriding of the 1C charge limit or anything like that.
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2014 Zero 11.4

Булгаков

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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #20 on: November 14, 2019, 06:15:32 AM »

I have a similar vintage Zero, a 14 SR, and I had to replace the BMS board a few months back after it went from powered to unpowered coasting on US101 at SSF.  Luckily I was able to coast to the side of the freeway and push it back the onramp.

Zero dealer SFMOTO took care of it, but it cost a good chunk of change once labor was included.

Yikes! That sucks! I had similar problems on my old 2012 Zero before it got traded in. :/

Was your battery still under warranty, but they still charged you for the BMS board?
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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #21 on: November 14, 2019, 07:53:17 AM »

The BMS is part of the power pack and in my understanding is covered by the battery warranty by default. 2014 unfortunately is now 5 years ago, but Zero can be pretty accommodating.

The BMS price isn’t cheap, and I’m starting to think that’s partly because of the factory programming and dealer install and testing overhead. Not that’s it’s a low end component but that they bundle the labor.

There’s always a chance they determine that an external third-party charger or a custom modification caused some damage, but that requires evidence. Usually it’s something onboard.

PL536 refers to each of a cluster of chips on the board that help it deliver current to the layers of cells in the battery for cell balancing. I just have no idea whether those errors signify anything.
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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #22 on: November 16, 2019, 03:09:22 AM »

Well, I got a small update today that doesn't make any sense to me:

The dealer called me back, said that a Zero factory tech had remotely accessed the bike, and apparently the factory tech believes that the MBB is actually the problem, and not the BMS, but that the MBB is causing the BMS problems as well.

This doesn't make sense to me because my understanding is that the BMS is enabling/disabling the MBB (which is what the BMS logs indicate), and the BMS is claiming that it cannot boot due to an EEPROM / firmware error.

The dealer says that the price of the MBB is $450 (but maybe a used one is available from the factory) and they don't have an estimate for labor charges yet.

Does this make any sense??

If I replace the MBB, (not under warranty) and it still is broken, and then the BMS still has to be fixed/replaced/whatever, then I would be screwed on paying for the MBB and the labor for it, since Zero won't pay for labor for things not covered by the warranty ...
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2014 Zero 11.4

Булгаков

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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #23 on: December 03, 2019, 08:27:03 AM »

So apparently despite the BMS log errors Zero thinks it's a MBB problem, so they're sending out a test MBB to see if swapping that out either fixes the problem or enables them to troubleshoot the problems further.

Also, apparently "a good amount of errors, especially on older bikes, are false positives," according to Zero, which seems to me to be both good news (I might have a working bike again soon and I can ignore all those errors!) as well as bad news (I can't trust the logs for troubleshooting or predicting component failures).

We'll see.
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2014 Zero 11.4

Crissa

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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #24 on: December 03, 2019, 11:52:50 AM »

Errors in logs are often false positives - some other timing issue causes them.  It's a real pain in diagnosing hardware ^-^

-Crissa
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Re: dead 2014 zero S - flashing dash, no BMS lights, no blink code, no power.
« Reply #25 on: February 11, 2020, 11:38:52 PM »

The problem ended up being a dead MBB (no idea about the cause of death unfortunately), and after replacing the MBB it is working.

$$$ Ouch.
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2014 Zero 11.4
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