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[JaimeC]

I think the difference here (speaking for myself ONLY) is that I've outgrown the need for TOYS.  I didn't buy the Zero to have fun (although it is), I bought the Zero to fill a practical NEED:  Commuting to and from work for as cheaply as possible.  Work is 34 miles round trip (all highway).  Throw in a ride to somewhere to eat lunch (I'm in the middle of an industrial complex, other than our cafeteria there is NO place within walking distance) and I can easily log anywhere from 34 to 50 miles a day (not including running errands after work).  The Zero is absolutely PERFECT in this role.

I do use it occasionally for pleasure; short local charity rides, a run up to the shore (I live on an island) to clear my head, etc.  Nothing can beat the sounds of birds and crickets chirping, the wind in the trees and kids playing; sounds you simply don't hear on an ICE bike (even one with legal mufflers installed).

For longer rides, I do have my XMAX.  It may only be 300cc but you know what?  It gets me to work just as fast as if I were to take a modern 200hp sportbike.  In other words, I've come to the realization I don't NEED all that horsepower and torque to have fun and be happy.  The XMAX tools along on the highway at 70-75 mph and still gives me over 200 miles out of it's 3.3 gallon tank.  I've packed up all of my camping gear and clothing under the seat and in the top box, all safely locked away and protected from the weather and prying eyes; no half-ton land yacht required.

I do still have my K1200LT.  I keep it in hopes that one day my wife will be healthy enough to climb back on and tour with me.  I consider that bike "hers" even though I own and ride it.  It really was for her pleasure and I'm pretty sure almost half of the 216,000 miles on it were with her on the back.  But when I ride by myself, I don't need anything more than the XMAX or the Zero.

Also, I'm at the age where I seldom ride just for the sake of riding.  I need to have a destination in mind.  I'm at the age where I'm trying to collect memories; not things.  I can use Google to see how far away my target destination is, and how long it'll take to get there and then choose with bike I'll use (using the right tool for the job).  This year (since January 1st) I've already logged over 11,000 miles on two wheels.  The majority of that has been on the Zero.  The XMAX trails behind it by only a few hundred miles.  I ride it less often, but I ride it further when I do.  Finally, I just clicked over 1,000 miles this year on the K1200LT.  I haven't been riding it much but I do take it out on occasion to blow off the dust and make sure it still runs.

[Jarrett]

Yep, as mentioned, for the easy-going commuter/scooter crowd, Zero's make some sense.  That's kind of how I see them now, as an alternative to a scooter.

Although I suspect it would be a LONG time before you see ROI on one if you bought it new compared to cheaper ICE commuter options.

For people that like to do more than putt along short distances back and forth to work, they can get bothersome quickly.

[Doug S]

Yep, as mentioned, for the easy-going commuter/scooter crowd, Zero's make some sense.  That's kind of how I see them now, as an alternative to a scooter.

Although I suspect it would be a LONG time before you see ROI on one if you bought it new compared to cheaper ICE commuter options.

For people that like to do more than putt along short distances back and forth to work, they can get bothersome quickly.

So shut up and buy something less "bothersome" for yourself. Nobody's here trying to sell you a bill of goods. We ain't a bunch of pollyannas, either. Sure, we're enthusiastic about our vehicles -- how else would you have us be? You seem to resent us for it.

If you think there should be more "reality" here, here's my reality:

1) It is, by far, the cheapest way for a lot of people to get to work. My commute is much shorter now, but before I re-lo'ed, it was about 50 miles round trip. That's too far for a realistic bicycle or sneaker commute, and public transportation is much more time-consuming and still more expensive. Argue all you want about ROI, it is a daily money-saver.
2) It's fun. You can demean, dismiss and use derogatory terms like "putt along" all you want, but that doesn't change anything. My SR is the most fun bike I've ever had, period.
3) We're early adopters, still, which is why it's still expensive and you can still make an ROI argument. But for the next generation, that argument won't be possible -- because of early adopters like us. Someone's got to push this planet-saving technology forward, and I, for one, made a conscious decision to do that. I see no reason to change that opinion after 48,000 miles.
4) It satisfies a good 80% of my transportation needs. Before my re-lo, it was well above 90%. My hybrid RAV4 satisfies virtually all the others -- when I moved, I did rent a truck for a few hours. I intend to continue doing exactly the same thing. I love my vehicles, I'm very happy with the way they perform and fill my transportation needs, and I think they do it for a very reasonable price, including purchase price.

Are you listening to yourself? All your arguments boil down to downers, basically "I don't like them because I don't like them". That's what haters do. They hate because they hate, and try to find rationales for their hatred. You could say I'm doing the same thing, I suppose....but who's winning that argument? My "delusion" fills me with happiness with my vehicles, you're full of hatred at them.

Personally, your opinion matters very little to me.

[NEW2elec]

Jarrett you gave Zero about $30,000 and for that I thank you.
I wish you had posted a few other facts about yourself when you first came here and I could have saved you a lot of money.
Your first posts were about the road crash video and you seemed so scared the thing would be too powerful and get out from under you so people told you just go easy until you were used to it.
If you would have said how big a person you are I would have told you the FX isn't for you.
If you would have said your biggest motivation in life was impressing or racing or showing off for a bunch of guys you hang out with I would have told you they can't go as fast as a lot of ICE bikes but the Zero web page tells you that.

You said you loved both bikes and you said a few times how much fun the FX is but when someone beat you in a race like a couple of high school kids you got embarrassed.   Your going to take a few thousand dollar hit by selling the bike .  Knowing how you abused that FX motor and battery by riding it like your a motorcross racer (which your not) I would give a whole lot less than $8k
I'll say this for ya you got money to burn.
I guess Texas don't mind street racing too much or there just aren't enough cops to stop it but don't start crying when they take your license or put you in the back of the car.  If you want to race go to a track.

I wish you had enjoyed them more but to each his own.
Good luck.

[Doug S]

Interesting side note. A year or so ago, someone (finally) took a Tesla Model S to the Nurburgring to see how it would do. It thermally limited itself to avoid any damage, and you should have seen the ICE fanboiz poking fun at a vehicle that "couldn't even finish a lap on the 'ring!!!". Never mind that this is a strictly street vehicle, a luxury vehicle rather than a sports car, and most street vehicles wouldn't fare very well on the 'ring either. But it was true, the Tesla did fail to complete a lap at racing speed without limiting itself.

Almost exactly a week later, a prototype of the new Acura NSX was testing at the 'ring. Despite being a high-end sports car designed for this sort of abuse, it caught fire and burned itself to the ground. Literally destroyed itself. Funny, the ICE fanboiz were quiet as church mice when that happened.

I know which behavior I'd want to see in a street car!

Look, if you wanted a hot rod for the street, you bought the wrong bike...or you bought a bike for the wrong reason. Don't blame the bike for your stupidity.

[JaimeC]

Bingo.  Doesn't matter if you have a Zero or a Ducati Panigale V4R... you won't get to work or the supermarket any faster. 

[Jarrett]

Your first posts were about the road crash video and you seemed so scared the thing would be too powerful and get out from under you so people told you just go easy until you were used to it.

Yeah, based on the irrational fears posted here and other places, there was a concern about traction control initially.  But that's mainly due to the overblown torque specs and flat out incorrect 0-60 numbers posted about the bikes.  Once you ride one, you quickly figure out there's no issue as there's not really that much power to cause an issue.

If you would have said how big a person you are I would have told you the FX isn't for you.

Not even sure how to answer that one.

If you would have said your biggest motivation in life was impressing or racing or showing off for a bunch of guys you hang out with I would have told you they can't go as fast as a lot of ICE bikes but the Zero web page tells you that.

Too much error here to unpack it all.

when someone beat you in a race like a couple of high school kids you got embarrassed.

What?

Knowing how you abused that FX motor and battery by riding it like your a motorcross racer (which your not)

lol, again what?

I didn't realize Zero owners were such a sensitive lot.  It's ok to separate yourselves from the bikes and not take offense when someone provides actual feedback on them.

[Jarrett]

So shut up.
Don't blame the bike for your stupidity.
 My "delusion" fills me with happiness with my vehicles, you're full of hatred at them. 
Personally, your opinion matters very little to me.

Are you ok?  You sound as if you're having a bad day or something.

[Doug S]

I feel fantastic. I love my vehicles, love my new place (just had a house-warming party Saturday, it went great!), love my job, love my girlfriend. Never have suffered fools very well, though.

I hope you're doing well, too.

[Curt]

Ill ride WOT after every stoplight, leaving behind every car every time, and every ICE bike who is still busy putting it in gear and spinning their clutch, until I get to 35-45MPH, which is 5-10MPH above the speed limit, where nobody is bothered or cares because it looks and sounds innocent, until I get to the next light and split lanes to the front, where nobody cares because I'm not pumping exhaust into their window, until I take off again, and they are still stopped looking down at their cell phone in my rearview, because they thought my take-off would notify them of the green, and now they are 15 seconds behind getting honkerd at... hilarious, and I'd pay a 50% premium for that alone!

I'll take a few exits on the freeway, where it does fine indefinitely at 65 MPH, but I realize the FX is not for the freeway -- although it would not wear out from continuous use on the freeway, unlike any thumper <= 500cc. The only limiting I've experienced is 60 MPH if the battery is getting below 30%, and once 30 MPH when I pushed it below 5%. I actually look forward to weaving down the expressway during rush hour -- what a blast with the silent, narrow ninja machine and California lane splitting.

I maintain an ICE dirt bike for long dual sport rides, and another 1200c adventurer tourer for such purposes. I can't stand to ride those things, unless the nature of the trip forces me to, which fortunately is less than 10% of the time. That's how I know I've been converted.

[GaryArt1]

Hey guys.  Let's take a minute and breathe here.  I didn't start this thread to have a war between those who like EVs and those who don't.  We have enough concern with those that hate motorcycles and the people who ride them.  I posted my opinion and it is just that.  I thought I post it because it is from a person brand new to Electric Bikes but with a long history of ICE bikes.  Yes, I think EVs are cool, fun to ride and with some more advancements the bikes of the future but I do not feel they are the only valid way to enjoy a bike.  Motorcycling like many other things is a passion.  With any passion, you will have strong feelings, I understand that.  But just because you feel a certain way doesn't invalidate the way another person feels.  Your words on here shouldn't either.  EVs are not for everyone.  I understand that.  Hey many of your may look at my 650lb cruiser that has a handlebar with grips that point to the ground and enough chrome that it takes a afternoon to polish and think, I would never ride that.  That is the point.  There are enough different styles of bikes out there to please just about anyone.

Jarrett, I can see that maybe a EV is not ideal for you.   It's limitations may be more significant to the way you use your bike.  I can totally understand that.  But you have to understand you on on a forum that has people who generally feel very passionate about their EVs.  If you only post negative opinions, it may bring out some of our more passionate opinions.  You have the total right to your opinion also being you owned one.  You must just know your audience.  Being from NYC, I may think country music is an insult to my intelligence.  That is my opinion and only that.  It doesn't demean the music or the people who like it whatsoever.  But I would probably think twice about going on a country music forum and giving my opinion.  I am not saying everything on here has to be positive.  If people have legit problems or concerns, I welcome hearing it.  But if someone has had a negative experience with EVs and is just looking to bash them, this is probably not the best place for it.

[dittoalex]

I bought a 13.0 kWh SR for the purpose of sport riding an 80 mile loop of hairpins and trying out direct drive electric.  Direct drive electric simplifies riding to line selection and, especially after Ride-On tire sealant, is a smooth ride.  I'll be keeping the SR for this loop because the 2020 20 kWh Energica I want is 200 lbs heavier.

[NEW2elec]

Sorry Gary didn't want this to go this way but Jarrett has been building this tone of "these bikes are so stupid so I got a gas bike and you all should too" for a little while now.  It needs to be addressed.  For the record most of the guys on here have ICE bikes and I have no problem with that, get what works for you and your needs.

Jarrett I tried to help you out when you first wanted to get into electric and I feel like why did I waste my time if every way you want to ride is clearly not what the bikes are made for.  Like buying a hammer and bitching because it won't remove screws.

When you had your DSR (that you test rode) you were upset it couldn't keep up with your friends bikes.  You posted a picture of all your friends Harleys and your DSR.  You could kill them off the line but they would catch up to you and pass you at longer distances.
So you ran off and traded the DSR for a Triumph Speed Triple to beat them.  Not a Honda Rebel or a KLR 650 but a Speed Triple.  Those two bikes (ST and DSR) aren't even in the same ball park.  If a Speed Triple was what you wanted in the first place why bother with a always slower dual sport bike.

As for the FX it's a 289 pound bike you said your 270 pounds.  I don't care how big you are as a person, but you can't tow a 25 foot sailboat with a Toyota Yaris.  Big guys need bike bikes.  You always posted that you would ride the battery down to 0% SOC often.  Guess what, it aint a gas tank, it isn't good for the battery to do that.  But you wouldn't listen.  You just kept doing it.
  Heat isn't good for magnets but your W O T all the time, or at least post like you are.  Guess what, that aint good for any vehicle.

The bottom line is if you would have said you wanted to race and go full speed as your main desire I could have told you up front that electric isn't for you yet and saved you money and hassle.  You didn't bring that up as what you wanted until after you had bought both bikes.
If they didn't work for you it's on you.  Get the right tool for the job you want to do.
Don't come tell us how a gas bike wins a race and fills up faster and is cheaper to buy.  We all know that but don't care. 
Electric bikes ride better, easier, and quicker than ICE bikes and put on much cheaper miles. 
They will best them at every thing in the future but have limits now. 

[JaimeC]

I would add that the majority of us in this forum are quite satisfied with our penis size and have no need to buy two-wheeled compensation...

[Jarrett]

More childish personal attacks, got it.  I guess its the internet after all with safety and anonymity behind the keyboard.  Face to face, those with insults would be quiet as church mice I'm certain, as such people are.

new2elec, several of your statements about me are incorrect.  I'm not sure if you are confusing me with another poster or not.  It doesn't really matter to me at this point though.

It always baffles me how people read/hear things that aren't there.  I never said everyone should get a gas bike.  I never said Zero's are stupid.  I personally like them a lot.  I like the way the company is pushing the envelope and making these bikes a reality.  The FX is a fantastic bike, but unfortunately it has some serious limitations, which I found the hard way and documented in various posts on the forum.  I only hope prospective buyers will find those posts and see that information to make a more informed decision.  I'm sure I'll miss the FX, but I can't pretend I'm happy with the limitations that these bikes have anymore.

As I've stated a number of times, my hope is one day they will push the technology forward to the point these limitations are solved and I can fully enjoy one of their bikes.  Until then, I have to say goodbye to the brand.