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[DonTom]

We have. It's the old way of thinking.

Picture it like this: The battery ONLY accepts DC input to charge. The AC charger is just doing that at a slower rate. The DC stations are giant versions of your onboard charger just dumping in the juice at a high rate of speed. Hell, you can even throttle it back if you're worried. It's still just amps at the right voltage.

It's believed that the heat does the damage. Fast charging is too much heat too fast. If that was not an issue, I don't see why we could not charge at  several thousand amps. If there was no heat, we should be able to.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Be sure to explain that to Energica!

...And do you think they're going not going to err on the side of caution?

Besides, as you pointed out:  Charging creates heat, and fast charging more, and more heat is bad.  It also can raise the amount of time at 100% charge, also bad.

So even if fast charging isn't so bad, it still has secondary effects that can make it worse if not handled judiciously.

-Crissa

[MVetter]

It's believed that the heat does the damage. Fast charging is too much heat too fast. If that was not an issue, I don't see why we could not charge at  several thousand amps. If there was no heat, we should be able to.

-Don-  Reno, NV

I think we're on the same page, here. There are acceptable temperature ranges that are monitored. If the battery pack gets too close to the thresholds the charging speed is throttled back. If it's a hot day, you're in the sun, and you've been pushing the bike hard, you might be restricted to *gasp* 1C, aka you are now charging at the absolute fastest that anyone else dares charge.

God I love these Energica batteries.

[DonTom]

God I love these Energica batteries.

They have less warranty than Zero batteries and I assume the 24 KW charge rate is why.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[MVetter]

What's the average motorcyclist miles per year? 3000? Planning for an average of 10 years warranty not bad.

[Hans2183]

True but unlimited mileage still is better. Some people do more like 10x 3k a year (me).

[Hans2183]

That limited warranty and chaindrive (and liquid cooling) on the energica were reasons enough for me to go for zero instead.

I do 30.000 km/year so in Energica warranty terms that would be < 2 years warranty. With the investment of 10k I had to do to convert to electric I plan to get back on track (and actually start saving) at around 3 years.

[DonTom]

That limited warranty and chaindrive (and liquid cooling) on the energica were reasons enough for me to go for zero instead.

I prefer chains to belts. I hear of too many belts snapping, often even on new bikes. And that's with no warning. And I have no problem with a couple of  liquids  for much better cooling.

While such makes the bike heavier, as long as it has a reverse, I really don't care all that much.

But I still ride my Zeros the most, as 90% of my riding is around town and then I prefer a light bike.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[SBK74]

In that clip of the YouTuber, they were charging @11kW indeed. My guess is they charged at a 22kW 3F charging point and used a 20A type 2 cable, 3-phases with power distributed like 3kW/3kW/4,6kW, resulting in 10,6 kW total.  A 32A cable could have given 3/3/6 kW, so for the last 1,2 kW, you’ll have to drag a 3 phase 32A type2 cable around, in EU at least...

[remmie]

In that clip of the YouTuber, they were charging @11kW indeed. My guess is they charged at a 22kW 3F charging point and used a 20A type 2 cable, 3-phases with power distributed like 3kW/3kW/4,6kW, resulting in 10,6 kW total.  A 32A cable could have given 3/3/6 kW, so for the last 1,2 kW, you’ll have to drag a 3 phase 32A type2 cable around, in EU at least...

I hope it's not the case like with the stock "3 kW" charger that puts only 2.8 kW into the battery. I've measured the input and it takes 3.05 kW from the wall so technically it could be called a 3 kW charger.

So maybe the premium with 6kW rapid cherger can only do 11.0 kW due to losses, or it was a pre-production model only capable of 11 kW.

I will know in a short while, having ordered the rapid charger for my premium SR/F (back in early september)

Has anyone heard an E.T.A. date on the rapid charger yet?? Or the powertank ?. Both were "promised" in the fall of 2019.

[remmie]

I guess I'm gonna find out sooner than I thought. My 6kW Rapid Charger for the SR/F is at the dealer!!. They are gonna install it this thursday

[DonTom]

I guess I'm gonna find out sooner than I thought. My 6kW Rapid Charger for the SR/F is at the dealer!!. They are gonna install it this thursday

I think most here in the USA will find that charging at 12 KW from a single J-1772 is rather useless. Most of our J-1772 charge stations can only handle around 7KW max and I have seen some that can only do 5.5 KW.

I hear things are different in Europe.

We seem to be behind the rest of the modern world on the EV stuff.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Doug S]

There's no point in getting all worked up about the numbers. My bike has a "14.4 kWh" battery which actually has about 12.4 kWh of capacity. I'm not planning on suing anybody. It does what it does, I know what it does, and plan my affairs around that.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Usually a lower than expected power throughout on a charger means that the current limit has been reached (which is dominant to minimize internal heating) but that the input/line voltage is lower than nominal (droop below 220V AC under load).

Voltage drop on good equipment shouldn’t happen, but realistically, it does in various installations, maybe because of older upstream infrastructure or long cabling out to the charging station from the distribution panels.

[remmie]

I think most here in the USA will find that charging at 12 KW from a single J-1772 is rather useless. Most of our J-1772 charge stations can only handle around 7KW max and I have seen some that can only do 5.5 KW.

I hear things are different in Europe.

We seem to be behind the rest of the modern world on the EV stuff.

-Don-  Reno, NV

I'm in luck then   I live in the Netherlands/Europe and we have a 3 phase 230V system and loads and loads of 11kW stations (16Amps per phase)
If i'm not mistaken there are about 46.000 !!  of those in the Netherlands alone in a country of max 200 km East to west and 300 km North to South.

On such a 11kW station I think i could charge at around 9.5 kW (3kw+3kW+3.5 kW).
About 1 in 10 stations is even stronger at 22kW (32 amps per phase) and there i could charge at the full 12 kW
There are also 1000 "Fast Chargers with 43kW capability, often combined with a CHADEMO and CCS connection), obviously I could charge there with "only" 12kW

Neighbouring countries like Germany, France, Austria and switzelrland are a little bit behind but not by much and catching up fast, and they are doing an even better job because almost all stations are 22kW
So for us Europeans the rapid charging option is a Great way to speed up charging and cut the charging time to under an hour from 0% to 95%

All stations are equipped with a mennekes type 2 connector, same as on the (european version of) SR/F. 11 and 22kW stations unfortunately have no cable attached so we have to bring our own. 43kW stations are less common but do have a cable attached but are also much more expensive.

https://content.mailplus.nl/m11/images/user31100268/ev_nl_infographic_sep.png