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[Crilly]

They all have a DC to DC converter to charge the 12 volt battery and supply power for the lights, dash, and solenoids that control the high voltage.

[Crissa]

DC to DC is inefficient and will come with (comparatively) narrow ranges of amperage for conversion; the bigger its capacity the bigger the waste at the low end. Whereas a battery can give you all or a trickle.  So having a smaller aux battery means skipping the base loss of the DC-DC circuit when using only a trickle.

-Crissa

[reini]

There will still be a DC-DC converter, as omething also has to charge the Aux battery....

Edit: I agree that a buffer battery is better than only having a converter, especially if you want to realize connectivity while the bike is off.

[DonTom]

DC to DC is inefficient and will come with (comparatively) narrow ranges of amperage for conversion; the bigger its capacity the bigger the waste at the low end.

Yes, but with many KWHs available, why be concerned with it's inefficiency at a fraction of an amp or whatever?

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

They do mention it and I told you exactly where to find it

Yeah, I found it in that link "15.5 kWh (13.6 kWh nominal) of battery; " But I would expect that to be in the "electrical" specs instead of only  the 12 volt battery.

But now I also see it listed under "RESS" whatever that means.

Anybody here know what "RESS" stands for?

Edit: Disregard, I found it in a web search "Rechargeable Energy Storage System".  I never heard that term before.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Yes, but with many KWHs available, why be concerned with it's inefficiency at a fraction of an amp or whatever?

I suppose, but people would whine when they came back the next morning to see their battery had lost a few percent of power.  It would also insulate it from killing the main battery during shipping and storage.

-Crissa

[DonTom]

I suppose, but people would whine when they came back the next morning to see their battery had lost a few percent of power.  It would also insulate it from killing the main battery during shipping and storage.

Zeros keep the DC to DC Converter off until the key is on. Likewise, I assume most EVs will only charge the 12 volt battery when keyed on, so it will be off also.

But I am not so sure about the Tesla. It looses quite a bit of juice from the main battery when the car is just sitting. Up to 1%  per day.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

Teslas do alot of off-key management in the background.  The % state of charge is also only a guess so it'll shift around from temperature and settling, too.  Batteries don't always drop voltage evenly as their cells discharge, there's a bit of friction to the flow.  So a shift in temperature will change the resistance which will hop up and down in steps at times.

I really wish I knew the math behind it.  And every battery configuration has its own quirks, and develops more through its lifetime of charge-discharge cycles.  My oldest lithium battery stopped holding a charge when it was twenty-five years old, but I also got out of practice of charging and discharging it (The original Game Boy had an optional lithium pack which I totally abused.)

So I really liked hearing about others' experiences!  Gives me more exercise for the brain muscles

-Crissa

[DonTom]

Teslas do alot of off-key management in the background.

Yep. Especially when we consider it has 75 KWHs to play with.  Seems to draw down fast for 75 KWHs being available.

However, I also understand that a KWH is NOT always a KWH when a battery is involved. The KWH changes depending on load with batteries. Perhaps a lot less than 75KWH when the draw is only a half  amp or so.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Crissa]

There's also alot more mass.  The more individual cells means that each cell is losing power at the same step rate... Which is one of the reasons to avoid smaller cell sizes.  But in the matter of repair, assembly, and reliability under stress (failure conditions) more cells is currently better.

So many (unmoving) variables here

-Crissa

[wavelet]

No. The LiveWire has like a 13.7kWh battery.

I wonder why I find different specs everywhere I look. I recall at first the LW was supposed to have only a 7KWH battery. Keeps on getting larger, but . . .

If the LW really had a 24 KWH battery and could charge in an hour, it would really be worth that 30K$ they are asking.

-Don-  Reno, NV

As I recall, the initial concept bike had a small battery (7kWh sounds about right), just to demonstrate short rides.

[nicktulloh]

I had a very difficult time getting any of the CCS chargers to work with my bike at the  Elk Grove WalMart. More than one problem. First, credit cards are declined. Any of them, Even the WalMart Credit card. Then later the same credit card will be accepted in a minute that was just declined.

Now the bike and charge station each say "DC Initializing ". And then in a few more seconds, the machine says "Charging Error".

Big Pappa was there too and had the exact same problems with his bike. He somehow got a charger to work and after,  I also got one to work. I was just about ready to first call the service number on the machines, but I did not expect that to do any good and was expecting to have to call a tow truck.

We spent more time trying to get these chargers to work than we did waiting for them to charge when they finally did. And we have  no real clue what we did do when they finally did work.

I never have any problems using the EV-Go chargers. But WalMart doesn't use EV-Go, they use Electrify America.

Have others here had problems charging with CCS at WalMart?  Or are these problems just at the Elk Grove WalMart?

-Don-  Auburn, CA

Please don't shop WalMart.

[DonTom]

The trick for Electrify America is to start the session first from the App. Once started, THEN plug it in to the Energica. If you plug it in, it will fail. Same general principle seems to apply to everyone else. Ignore the "plug in first" request and just start the session first, plug in second.

Yep, and today I found out why.

They updated the FW at several Wal*Marts and part of the update should  have been new instructions. But somehow the instructions were not changed to NOT plug in first. Many cars also are reporting the same problem.

The Wal*Mart chargers in Fernly, NV worked perfectly, plugging  in first, because that charger  was NOT yet updated. So if you should or should not plug in first depends on the charger firmware and can be inconsistent. They do NOT update them over the air, so they get updated on different dates. Perhaps by now, they are all updated with the  new instructions anyway. I have not checked the chargers at any Wal*Marts lately.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[BigPoppa]

Please don't shop WalMart.

I personally avoid WalMart whenever possible. Not a fan of their corporate practices. I do use their CCS chargers from time to time since they tend to be the only CCS charger around that works in a given area. Even then, it’s only when I HAVE to get a fast charge.

[DonTom]

I personally avoid WalMart whenever possible. Not a fan of their corporate practices. I do use their CCS chargers from time to time since they tend to be the only CCS charger around that works in a given area. Even then, it’s only when I HAVE to get a fast charge.

When I need a charge, I will not be picky about where I get it. But I am really talking about Electrify America Chargers, regardless of their location.

Anyway, the point was that at least for a while, if we should or should not plug in first depended on the location. But now we know to try both ways, if they still have not updated their instructions with the new firmware updates.

BTW, I leaned yesterday that these chargers can get very complicated with their FW changes.  The various EV companies, including Energica, have to deal with the  charging companies firmware changes often. A fix for one vehicle can cause another make to malfunction, such as main fuses blowing all over Europe by  one CCS charging company that would start the charge on Energica at way too many KWs for a few seconds and blow main battery  fuses, which led to Energica having a way to replace the fuse easily in the 21.5 KWH battery.

-Don-  Auburn, CA