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[yhafting]

The amount of regen is based on how much you roll off the throttle but that initial and max regen amount is based on the regen setting on the bike itself (low, medium, high, or off). Others can correct me if I'm wrong but based on my riding and playing around with the various settings, that's the way it seems to work to me.

Thanks for that piece of information, BigPoppa. Then i didn't get it entirely wrong from the beginning. 

FWIW, I find for my riding between here and Reno, it is best to keep the regen off. Even the lowest setting is way too much regen for the freeway if you want to get the best range on a charge.  Better coasting is a lot more important than regen when going down hill at higher speeds.

One nice thing is the SS9 coasts very well with the regen off. A lot better than my Zeros with the regen off.

I wish the bike had breaking regen, but by looking at the regen scale on the upper left top of the screen, there is NO braking regen at all in any mode. I would like to put that at the max possible as when we need to brake, it can help charge the battery as we stop even faster and do less wear on the brakes.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

Thanks Don, i found my '15 SR better at coasting using 1% regen, but still it is not the same as having the wheel running freely.

I can understand that Energica chose not to have a brake regen setting, since it would mean added hardware on the brake lever to modulate the output. There is also the point that going hard on the front brake may lift the rear wheel or have it skid easily. Ideally i would like to see something like an integral brake where the regen brake increase up to a point where it would decrease when going harder at the front brake- but to find the sweetspot for such a construct in all types of traction is probably not so easy.

I can totally relate to the feeling of the smallest step being too big. I guess rider weight and driving style may come a bit into play (even though the bike is rather heavy in itself). For my zero i adjusted the brake lever regen to some 30% or so which is not much but it doesn't make the ride jerky when splitting lanes or being in dense traffic in wet weather.

For my car i wanted only coasting and (modulated) brake regen the first year i had it. The car did have modulated brake regen, so that worked quite well (enabling super-low cost driving). But at some point i gave in and tried the concept of one pedal driving, and although i am not a die hard fan of it, i find that i use it to some degree every time i drive except when the cruise control is on (i rarely hypermile). The beauty of one pedal (or throttle only) driving is that it requires very little input effort, and it is efficient in traffic. Going fast from accelerating to braking makes for efficient (not economical) driving. Now the car i have has four settings for regen which can be adjusted from the steering wheel, and i usually use them all every time i drive, except in winter where the hardest regen setting can be too much on snow and ice, and sliding using regen is different (in a not so pleasant way) than sliding with ordinary ABS function. 
   

[Kradblatt]

I wish the bike had breaking regen, but by looking at the regen scale on the upper left top of the screen, there is NO braking regen at all in any mode.

Sorry Don, I don't understand the difference. Lack of technical english :-P ;-)
Baraking regen / decelerate regen / coasting

For my understanding:
- when I close the throttle just a bit, the bike just rolls. This is coasting, right? So there is no need for a regen off seting.
- when I close throttle more the recuperation starts. As more I close it as harder the bike brakes (due to choose level) and gives back energy to the battery.

Higher regen level always gives you more range and saves brakes even if you coast the most time
But no regen lowers range at all cause you need to pull brakes in case.

Or do I get something wrong?

[Richard230]

I wish the bike had breaking regen, but by looking at the regen scale on the upper left top of the screen, there is NO braking regen at all in any mode.

Sorry Don, I don't understand the difference. Lack of technical english :-P ;-)
Baraking regen / decelerate regen / coasting

For my understanding:
- when I close the throttle just a bit, the bike just rolls. This is coasting, right? So there is no need for a regen off seting.
- when I close throttle more the recuperation starts. As more I close it as harder the bike brakes (due to choose level) and gives back energy to the battery.

Higher regen level always gives you more range and saves brakes even if you coast the most time
But no regen lowers range at all cause you need to pull brakes in case.

Or do I get something wrong?

With Zeros you get regen also when braking, in addition to when you shut the throttle. As an example: I have my Zero set up for maximum regen when the brake lever is touched and no regen when the throttle is closed. That way I don't need as much force on the brakes when coming to a stop, but I also don't have to fight the regen when coasting down a moderate hill.

[DonTom]

Higher regen level always gives you more range and saves brakes even if you coast the most time
But no regen lowers range at all cause you need to pull brakes in case.

Or do I get something wrong?

You get MUCH better range on the freeway with  very little or no deceleration regen at all. The regen slows the bike down, which wastes range at higher speeds when compared to coasting. However, things are different when you MUST stop or MUST slow down. Then you want all the regen you can get. So it's best to have no deceleration regen and the max braking regen on the freeway. But the Zeros can do that, the SS9 has no way of doing such so it is best to just keep the regen off while on the freeway to get the best longest coasting instead of wasting power by letting the bike slow down which has to be made up later, such as coasting down hill and then uphill.

Going downhill with regen, at best,  will give you back 10% of the energy to get back up the same hill. But you lost more than 50% by letting the bike slow down and that power is needed to get back up the same hill. So you lose a lot more range by deceleration regen  by not coasting as well compared to deceleration regen being off.

At slow city speeds, this reverses as then we have too many reason why we MUST stop and MUST slow down, unlike when on the freeway. So now you benefit a lot by having as much deceleration  regen as possible, as it also helps save your brakes. Same with braking regen.  IMO, with only rare exceptions, braking regen should always  be at 100% all the time regardless of speed. But only the Zeros allow the separate settings for braking and deceleration regen.

FWIW, my Tesla also does not have  braking regen. But at slow speeds it has so much deceleration  regen that it is almost like slamming on the brakes when I let go of the pedal. Because of this, the brake light then  comes on without me  touching the brake. In the Tesla, as speed increases the regen automatically becomes MUCH less. So there are different ways of doing some of this stuff.

With  my two Zeros, I use my custom mode for the freeway, 20% deceleration  regen, 100% braking regen.  The only reason I keep the deceleration regen at 20% is because that bike coasts the same at 20% as off. I cannot notice any difference. The Zeros do NOT coast well even when it's off. The SS9 coasts very with regen all the way off, but not even at the lowest setting.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Kradblatt]

thx for explanation.
I guess I'm just to familiar with the handling of my throttle and use coasting and braking automatically that way.
That's why I mentioned the option to coast with just a little a drop of the throttle.
Of course it needs more attention but as soon as you get used to it, it should do the same :-)

[Sklith]

It’s possible to get coasting while having the regen set to high but this requires constant throttle repositioning, and this can get quite tiring in long distance rides. I normally keep regen set to high on the street but turn it off on the highway so I can relax my wrist.

[Richard230]

It looked today like there were as many Energicas as their were BMWs (not that many as they were reducing their inventory while waiting for the 2020 models to arrive) at the BMW shop in Mountain View, CA.  Prices ranged from $19,500 to $21,500, with the new SS9 going for the higher prices.

Time to give the forum attachments upgrade a test to see if it will allow me to post four attachments now.

[DonTom]

It looked today like there were as many Energicas as their were BMWs

I am not surprised as Lawrence (the guy who picked up my SS9 from Auburn) told me that they were about to receive a bunch of new Energicas from Italy  which would keep them very busy in Redwood City to get them ready for the dealers.

They raised the price on the 2020 Esse Esse 9 since I bought mine a couple of months ago?  If that's the case, I timed it right. IIRC, the SS9 was their cheapest model and the Ego was the most expensive.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

It looked today like there were as many Energicas as their were BMWs

I am not surprised as Lawrence (the guy who picked up my SS9 from Auburn) told me that they were about to receive a bunch of new Energicas from Italy  which would keep them very busy in Redwood City to get them ready for the dealers.

They raised the price on the 2020 Esse Esse 9 since I bought mine a couple of months ago?  If that's the case, I timed it right. IIRC, the SS9 was their cheapest model and the Ego was the most expensive.

-Don-  Reno, NV

My guess that is because the Egos were 2019 models and the SS9s 2020 bikes.  It has been my observation that the previous year models drop several thousand dollars when the next year's bikes arrive.  That was certainly true in 2018 when the 2017 models were priced around $17K, after having been in the $23K range when they first came out the year before.

[Crissa]

Those are very pretty!

I've seen five (if I'm counting right) Zeros sold at the San Jose BMW over the last month.

Do you like the Mountain View dealer for BMW stuff?  Do they do loaner bikes, too?  It's interesting one is paired with Zero and the other is paired with Energica

-Crissa

[Richard230]

Those are very pretty!

I've seen five (if I'm counting right) Zeros sold at the San Jose BMW over the last month.

Do you like the Mountain View dealer for BMW stuff?  Do they do loaner bikes, too?  It's interesting one is paired with Zero and the other is paired with Energica

-Crissa

I have been a customer of the Mountain View dealership for over 30 years.  I have always been happy with the shop, with my only complaint being that they continually change shop technicians, possibility because the cost of living in the area is so high that they can't pay enough to keep them around once they gain shop experience and find a better job working at a major brand car dealer.

They have always offered loaner bikes for as long as I have been going there.  Most of the loaner bike action occurs during the week when people drop off their bikes, pick up a loaner, to go work and bring it back at the end of the day, after their bike has been serviced.  Since I am retired, I always visit the shop on a Saturday when the traffic is much lighter and will just stick around if my bike is being serviced, and/or walk around the nice neighborhood between the shop and the Mountain View shopping center, located about a mile to the west.

My recollection is that Calmoto was contacted by Zero a few years ago but they declined to become a dealer because they didn't want to service and repair electric motorcycles. They wanted Zero to do repairs at their factory. And of course, Zero wasn't going to agree to that.  But when Energica came along, they offered to perform any power train servicing at their nearby maintenance facility, which meant that Calmoto only had to sell the bikes and accessories and didn't have to spend any money training their technicians to work on the bikes - only to have them leave and head for the local Tesla dealer once they gained enough experience working the EVs. At least that is the story that I heard, which makes sense to me.

I might add that Calmoto first got a sour taste of electric motorcycles in 2009 when Brammo showed up with a couple of pre-production Enertias and let the shop play with them for a weekend.  Both bikes died and no one, including the Brammo rep, could get them going again. So that really put end to that idea and I continued to hear that story for the next five years.   

[Crissa]

There used to be another shop that did Zeros up there... Mission up in Daly City.  According to my bike's keychain, that's where it was serviced.  They're closed now, though.

The whole BMW experience felt alot like getting my mom's Lexus serviced while she had one.  They're really classy.  Loaner bikes!  Like wow.  I wonder if the San Jose shop has an easier time since south bay housing is slightly better than peninsula.  I know over here in Santa Cruz I'm playing like a hundred and eighty dollars an hour for a mechanic, which is why we went to Jim's for as long as we could.  But he doesn't do new bikes or loaners

I was exiled to Sunnyvale for almost a decade so I knew both areas enough that I know the best places to get lunch up there.

-Crissa

[Richard230]

There used to be another shop that did Zeros up there... Mission up in Daly City.  According to my bike's keychain, that's where it was serviced.  They're closed now, though.

The whole BMW experience felt alot like getting my mom's Lexus serviced while she had one.  They're really classy.  Loaner bikes!  Like wow.  I wonder if the San Jose shop has an easier time since south bay housing is slightly better than peninsula.  I know over here in Santa Cruz I'm playing like a hundred and eighty dollars an hour for a mechanic, which is why we went to Jim's for as long as we could.  But he doesn't do new bikes or loaners

I was exiled to Sunnyvale for almost a decade so I knew both areas enough that I know the best places to get lunch up there.

-Crissa

I bought my FZ1 in 2002 from the Daly City shop, as well as my 2012 and 2014 Zeros.  A couple of years before they closed for one year they said they sold more Zeros than they did Yamahas.  Apparently that really pissed off Yamaha and they withdrew their franchise and then the lawyers got involved.  Eventually, the lady who owned the multi-brand dealership just got fed up with the motorcycle retail business and the conflicting demands of the different brands and retired.  She sold the building to the Dollar Store and that is what is there now. Her experienced Zero staff, including the lady that sold me both of my Zeros, Nancy, the office manager, Theresa, and their experienced Zero technician, then went to work for SF Moto, who are now the only Zero dealer north of San Jose. I bought my 2018 S from SF Moto and had my 600-mile break-in service performed there.  I think their labor rates are around $180, too. But if you bought the bike from them I believe you get a 10% discount on the cost of servicing.

[NEW2elec]

OMG $180 an hour?  That makes my wallet cry.  Ga is $100 for a really high end dealer.

[DonTom]

OMG $180 an hour?  That makes my wallet cry.  Ga is $100 for a really high end dealer.

That is cheap for the San Francisco area where the average house (which will be a dump by the standards of most other places) is well more than a million bucks.

BTW, I have done business with both those places, the cycle shop (in the late 1980's) as well as the Dollar store.

-Don-  Reno, NV