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[Richard230]

I was able to purchase a factory DVD service manual for my BMW R1200RS over the counter from my BMW dealer for around $110.  It is really a amazing manual, which clearly covers every possible thing you would want to do to the bike and is very well illustrated.  Plus, BMW updates it about ever 6 months to my computer files over the internet. 

I am not saying that Zero should do the same thing, just to relate what BMW does for all of the current models.

[flattetyre]

In the case of BMW the factory software tools are also out in the open and the binaries of nearly all the enthusiast models have been reverse engineered and documented. With Zero the admin password of the mbb (lol) is not even public knowledge. Like, come on.

[DonTom]

Today, I  rode my SR down to Elk Grove Power Sports. I made an appointment to have my firmware updated and my motor commissioned. This is the ONLY dealer I have found that I trust to work on my Zeros. These guys work on Zeros all the time, having big contracts with various city departments, which is probably most of their business.

Anyway, I was able to get some facts about how it is all done. They can do it all while I wait, but still need the appointment. It will be done in two weeks as that was the earliest they could schedule my appointment. It takes about 45 minutes.

I was told to do this stuff, they have to log on to the Zero Dealer-only Website and it must be done while Zero is Scott's Valley is open, as some  of this is done from Zero after they are connected up to my bike. And from there, they get my latest FW updates and do the motor commissioning for my bike.

Obviously, the shop in Reno doesn't even know about the dealer website.

I may have to get my DS 6.5 down there too, if I cannot get it done in Reno. I think the J-1772's on the way down are within range of that bike. But it's light enough that I can take it down there on my RV hitch, so I will get it done as well.

I just hope after the work is done on these two bikes that they will run as well as they do now!

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[pyromancy5]

But.. I dont understand why it cant figure this out dynamically and periodically update itself.

That and why does it drift?
I can understand the precision to which the calibration must be made but being this is electronics, why does it change overtime? What wears out or moves to cause the need to re calibrate?
This sounds a lot like the old ignition systems on ICE vehicles in days of yore, where you had to use a timing light to adjust the spark to near top dead center as the ignition points wore out.

Just bizarre

Things can shift with temperature, time and at such high RPMs.  I work in a research institute, and we do the same thing with our ultra centrifuges once per year.  Some of those rotors spin up to 150K rpm or more.  Just like you would adjust points or timing on an ICE vehicle, electric motors need to be in time too.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I want total authority of my Zero in my own garage. Who's with me???

You’re exactly the kind of blowhard that makes me take extra time on the unofficial manual writing explicit warnings about potential harm.

I seriously would not be surprised if you someday drop a wrench across live power terminals and vaporize a lot of things very near and dear to you. I don’t think you will, but if you did, I wouldn’t blink.

I want an owner serviceable bike, but you need to respect that the work involved inside EV powertrains is actually dangerous and requires training. You can’t bluff or use common sense around high power electrical systems.

[flattetyre]

You’re exactly the kind of blowhard.

Well, you too lol. Don't take yourself so seriously. And if that's your attitude toward the community, maybe you should show yourself out. If we want to work on our bikes that's our business. It's really not that complicated.

[VampyreLegion]

I just had my SR/F recommissioning at 1449 miles on the bike. The dealer connects a laptop to your bike and then they connect to Zero and they work together with Zero tech to adjust the bike timing.  This took less then 30 minutes.  I didn't notice anything different on the ride home.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

You’re exactly the kind of blowhard.

Well, you too lol. Don't take yourself so seriously. And if that's your attitude toward the community, maybe you should show yourself out. If we want to work on our bikes that's our business. It's really not that complicated.

You’re right, it isn’t that complicated. You’re able to do whatever you like, it’s just that you’re not getting official assistance or information.

And I’m the majority contributor and editor of zeromanual.com which means I take time to make sure what I publish doesn’t lead people to overconfidently get into areas where they’ll harm their bikes or themselves.

And I’ve been contacted by Zero more than once about issues where owners broke their bikes trying an unofficial procedure and demanded that Zero fix it for free.

You’re showing some grotesque entitlement towards other forum participants here as well as towards Zero, and I’m calling you out on it.

Enjoy the unofficial manual.

[flattetyre]

If that's your attitude then you should quit writing. Nobody's forcing you. And I think Zero SHOULD be forced, by law, to offer all repair tools to any interested parties.

[DonTom]

If that's your attitude then you should quit writing. Nobody's forcing you. And I think Zero SHOULD be forced, by law, to offer all repair tools to any interested parties.

Especially the tools to fix a flatte tyre!

-Don- 

[flattetyre]

Separate my idea from me for a second and tell me you disagree that we should be able to buy all tools needed to service our bikes.

[bergercurtis]

Separate my idea from me for a second and tell me you disagree that we should be able to buy all tools needed to service our bikes.

I think from a strategic competitive standpoint (disregarding safety and experience), they don't want competitors access to proprietary information to Zeros. Even technicians don't get the full picture, but have something along the lines of an NDA to keep them from sharing too much.

There are probably many reasons, but the one reason I do agree with you is that most Zero dealers are quite clueless. Most technicians are strictly used to ICE service and diagnostics, where EV is an entire different animal. It would be nice to not rely on your most local dealer who may or may not be competent. I think moving forward, Zero acknowledges issues with their current service support and are in the works for changes.

[DonTom]

Separate my idea from me for a second and tell me you disagree that we should be able to buy all tools needed to service our bikes.

It would be nice if we could do all the work ourselves, but I also see some good reasons why we shouldn't always be able to.

But if you have enough money, you can do all the work yourself!  Simply buy the Zero factory and then run it anyway you wish.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Separate my idea from me for a second and tell me you disagree that we should be able to buy all tools needed to service our bikes.

Absolutely we should. I support the right to repair and chose Zero motorcycles because they’re the most likely to be used serviceable in addition to be worth servicing. That’s why there’s a number of wiki pages like the toolkit page:

https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Tool_Kits

And I collect every piece of documentation and software I can for a rainy day. Note that from what I’ve seen, Zero’s documentation and tooling are still immature, and will be until it’s 10 times bigger to afford staff and QA. They’re not going to be persuaded to let users tinker with the clunky tools they can’t keep dealerships reliably trained on.

But you’re still a blowhard among many who I can’t trust to do anything other than make the vendor mistrust us more. So I think you’re a liability in this cause, not an asset.

[Bill822]

But you’re still a blowhard among many who I can’t trust to do anything other than make the vendor mistrust us more. So I think you’re a liability in this cause, not an asset.

Absolutely.
He trolls all over the board being querulous. Pay him no attention.