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[Redblade]

I'm more than a little skeptical that anyone would buy an SR/F to save money

If they bought a SR/F instead of  LiveWire, they saved quite a bit!

-Don-  Auburn, NV

ok....then why do people insist on mentioning cost savings vs an ICE bike? Why does the argument always change when facts are brought into play?

People talk about performance, and then when performance numbers are put side by side an ICE bike...suddenly performance doesn't matter
Maintenance is brought up, but then it costs just as much as an ICE bike...suddenly maintenance costs don't matter.

Seriously, EV owners sound like flat earthers to me at this point.

[stevenh]

I'm more than a little skeptical that anyone would buy an SR/F to save money

If they bought a SR/F instead of  LiveWire, they saved quite a bit!

-Don-  Auburn, NV

ok....then why do people insist on mentioning cost savings vs an ICE bike? Why does the argument always change when facts are brought into play?

People talk about performance, and then when performance numbers are put side by side an ICE bike...suddenly performance doesn't matter
Maintenance is brought up, but then it costs just as much as an ICE bike...suddenly maintenance costs don't matter.

Seriously, EV owners sound like flat earthers to me at this point.

I can't speed for all "people", but the ongoing costs for maintenance are lower, and I don't have to bring the bike the shop as often.  I don't care if was cheaper to start with, I just wanted one.  I firmly believe the earth to be round.

I bought a Clarity Hybrid to avoid going to the gas station.  With our electric rates (northeast), it does not save me a bunch of money at this point (I don't care, I just like to plug it in).

My two cents...

Steve

[gadgetgirl]

For me, I liked the look of the SR/F, it's a blast to ride and probably in the upper quarter of motorcycle models for performance, I don't get roasted alive in urban traffic, I'm not a noise-polluting asshole, I'm funding the advancement of renewal energy tech, and I'm not contributing to bad air quality in Chicago (+ we can opt for the electricity we use to be fed into the grid via the wind farms near here). It's nice that complete refueling here is about 70¢ vs $25 that my last ICE bike needed for the same range, but there are tons of other modes of transportation that would be more cost effective. Maintenance is probably a wash compared to my last ICE bike. If I straight-up wanted to optimize for costs, I would buy a train/bus ticket, which is way cheaper than any bike, ICE or BEV.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Electric motorcycles and EVs in general pencil out as good investments for fleet vehicles, where the duty cycle is very high. Think of delivery trucks or security patrol vehicles.

For private owners, the equivalent is the high-mileage commuter.

If you want to be snarky about the price point to feature set not matching traditional gas bikes, understand that you're paying for a less expensive motorcycle with an extremely expensive battery, once that costs about $6000. The OEM has to pay the batter manufacturer, and QA and test the battery so it will last a long time with an owner. That costs a lot of money.

The cost savings for both is that if you crank out the miles, the savings per 10,000 miles is now substantial enough that by about 60-70k miles, you've avoided paying the cost of the bike again in fuel and servicing. And what you're amortizing is the cost of the battery.

People buy EVs for all sorts of motivations that don't have to be good, but buying them for cost savings has an actual spreadsheet analysis you can do.

Usually, you can mix the reasons of money in with "less work and grease in the garage" which is a little more along the lines of "more smiles per mile" kind of rationale.

[Doug S]

I did a lot of spreadsheeting before I bought my 2014 SR, and I couldn't really justify the purchase price unless I planned on running the bike up into the 60,000 mile neighborhood or beyond...which I DO plan on doing, and I'm getting close to at 48,000. And that was to justify buying the bike by putting fewer miles on my car -- comparing to an ICE motorcycle, it becomes pretty much impossible to make a purely economic rationale for an electric motorcycle. The purchase prices are just too far apart, and the running costs too close together.

Economics isn't what made up my mind. What made up my mind was the test ride. It's been a long time since I had so much fun on a bike. Also, I was willing (and even wanted) to be an early adopter for this technology, to help bring economies of scale to the industry. Some people have to step up and bring the manufacturers up to the scale where they can bring the prices down comparable to ICE machines.

48,000 miles have done nothing to change my position. I've considered springing for a shiny SR/F, or maybe an EsseEsse, but I just can't bring myself to do it. The old girl has worked hard for me, and I know she's got at least another 20,000 in her.

[Bill822]

Ongoing costs of EV and electric motorcycle ownership are much lower than those of gasoline powered vehicles.

Firstly and most obviously you never have to pay for gasoline. It costs me about $1.50 to "fill" my SR/F from empty after going about 100 miles. At $2.30 per gallon a gas bike would need to get just over 150mpg to match that cost.

Every machine requires maintenance. Electric motorcycles are no exception. All the moving bits can wear on any motorcycle. there are far fewer moving bits on an electric. The Zero will never require a valve adjustment or oil change but all other motorcycle parts, brake fluid for instance, require the same regular maintenance.

The 600 mile motor adjusting thing. That isa cost gas bikes don't have but there isn't a single full size bike I've seen that doesn't require a more involved 600 mile (or equivalent) service and many miles of break-in at reduced power levels. Most people ignore the break-in period for gas bikes and it seems to me quite a few people skip the electric motor adjustment.

Nevertheless it is a great idea to have a pro at your dealer look over the bike after that first few hundred miles.Things shake loose and this bike is newer to you than it is to the mechanic. Most home "mechanics" also tend to overlook things like steering bearings that a dealer will (hopefully) check.

TLDR: Yes, cheaper to maintain. Obviously.

[Redblade]

Cheaper to maintain "obviously" if you keep the bike for close to 100,000 miles. This bikes most direct competitor is the MT-09...which is 10k less. 100k miles of fuel on the MT-09 at 50mpg and $2.30 a gallon will cost you $4,600 and you can do most of the maintenance yourself for under $50 a service interval. You cannot commission a Zero SR/F motor yourself, which seems to run about $175 an interval...adding up to over $2,000 over the course of 100,000 miles.

I'm sure the MT-09 has some high mileage expensive maintenance costs...but you are still starting out 10k ahead.

I would love to compare the SR/F to a top quality motorcycle, but that just doesn't make any sense. The fit and finish of this bike are subpar. I have panel gaps all over my SR/F, great looking bike...but the quality isn't there.

[Richard230]

Gas prices in my area are around $4 a gallon. 

[stevenh]

Gas prices in my area are around $4 a gallon. 

We've got the worse case scenario, $2.30 a gallon for gas, and electric at $0.19/KWH...

I still love my SR/F

Steve

[Richard230]

I am paying $ 0.22376 per kWh, with electric power increases having been submitted to the PUC each year for the next three years.   

[DonTom]

I am paying $ 0.22376 per kWh, with electric power increases having been submitted to the PUC each year for the next three years.   

Are you aware of this?

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Richard230]

I am paying $ 0.22376 per kWh, with electric power increases having been submitted to the PUC each year for the next three years.   

Are you aware of this?

-Don-  Auburn, CA

What I am more concerned about is Pacific, Graft and Explosion's plan to cut power to large areas of their grid should they believe that extreme fire conditions are occurring in order to reduce their fire starting liability claims. Once PG&E shuts down their electrical grid because it might cause a fire during dry and windy weather conditions it will take them days before they turn it back on even if there was no damage to the system as they will have to inspect hundreds of poles and wires before re-energizing the grid. If that happens it is going to be a real disaster, especially for large cities.  I can't imagine what San Francisco would be like without electricity for a week. Probably something like a Mad Max movie.   

And in the meantime, your electric vehicle will be parked and your computer will be blank, waiting for the power to return. 

[DonTom]

And in the meantime, your electric vehicle will be parked and your computer will be blank, waiting for the power to return. 

Not mine. I will charge my  Zero's with my RV generator just as I have done many times before at around 3.5 KW.

And I will still be using my computer and watching TV, getting on the air with my ham radio stuff, etc.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Richard230]

And in the meantime, your electric vehicle will be parked and your computer will be blank, waiting for the power to return. 

Not mine. I will charge my  Zero's with my RV generator just as I have done many times before at around 3.5 KW.

And I will still be using my computer and watching TV, getting on the air with my ham radio stuff, etc.


-Don-  Auburn, CA

Oh, you are one of those personal air polluters that the news media warns us about.   

[DonTom]

Oh, you are one of those personal air polluters that the news media warns us about.   

Not always, at least 95% of my driving/riding is electric. Too bad not everybody can do that well.

BTW, this coming Tuesday I will be in Mountain View. If the SS9 there  has a sold sign on it after that, or is no longer there, you will probably know why. If it sells before then, I can order one. Or at least look at the other  Energicas there.

And BTW, that trip will be by battery as well, but in my Tesla M3.

So I pollute less than most people, by far. But I do have to give my many ICE vehicles some exercise once in a while before the gasoline gets too old.

In fact, it's about time for me to run my RV generator. They like to be ran a lot or they start giving serious problems. The guts of them need to stay dry and running them as often as possible takes care of that.

FWIW, I hope to replace my RV with an ERV someday, but nobody makes a decent one yet.

Elon Musk, are you reading this?


-Don-  Auburn, CA