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[Jarrett]

I know... its been beaten to death, but since I've got one on order, I just gotta ask one more time. 

116 ft-lbs. of instant torque, no traction control, just how dangerous is this bike?

I ask because another DSR owner just posted a high side report on ZMOG after owning and riding the bike for 3700 miles.  He said he was making a turn at 15 mph in Sport mode on a dry, but freshly repaired road and the bike pitched him, road rash, broken collar bone, damaged bike, etc.

I totally get that on a demo ride a Zero can catch an unsuspecting rider, but after 3700 miles of experience with the bike, why is this kind of thing happening?  It's not the first time I've read this either.  Pinaero on YouTube said during his 8.000 mile review of the bike that he had recently low sided it unexpectedly. 

It makes me wonder what is it about the bike that is throwing riders off after thousands of miles of experience with the bike?  I read a lot of motorcycle forums and I don't see this type of pattern anywhere else, where someone says I've been riding X bike for Y thousands of miles and today it surprised me and threw me off.

Is this a coincidence or is there something inherently dangerous about this particular bike?

[Jarrett]

I should mention, I've had no issues with lack of traction control on my FX in the last 1600 miles, but I understand that the acceleration is introduced differently on the R models than the FX models.  My test rides on the DS, DSR and SR/F didn't indicate any weird traction issues other than the back end stepping out on me once on the SR/F with the traction control disabled.  My test ride on the DS or DSR didn't give me that feeling at all.

[domingo3]

As I've said in many other threads, I lowsided my FXS.  The torque delivery caught me off guard because it's different.  I don't consider the bike dangerous; I think I was dangerous on the bike that day.  I wouldn't call it coincidence; the bike has the capability to spin up the rear wheel extremely fast.  It can be ridden safely with a smidgen of respect.  Without going on a rant, my opinion is this is more about risk tolerance and accepting personal reliability than it is about being inherently dangerous.

[Jarrett]

If the DSR is the same as the FX, then there is no issue as the FX is completely safe, imo.

I'm just wondering if the R models are inherently more dangerous than the non-R or FX models due to an undisclosed issue.

Just dawned on me that the DSR+PT tank has a lower torque to weight ratio than an FX or FXS.  Maybe this is all moot.

[Richard230]

The problem is that most Zero riders come to the sport with a fair amount of ICE riding and are used to the inertia of the entire drive train having a "flywheel effect" which slows down rear wheel speed transitions when hitting a slippery spot on the road.  You don't get this effect with a direct-drive electric motor. It spins up instantly and can catch the rider unaware. The only way you can combat this effect, without having electronic traction control, is for the rider to be very aware of situations that might cause a loss of traction and to be very careful with the throttle when cornering, especially on wet or sandy surfaces or when accelerating around freeway on-ramps, which tend to be covered with light oil or anti-freeze. If you don't have a type of traction control it might be a good idea to switch to "eco" mode when riding on wet streets.

[alko]

It all depends on the rider. I love the torque on my dsr and the ability to spin-out whenever I want. Ive been riding sport bikes for over 40 years because I love the power. It didnt take me long to adjust and respect the extra torque of the dsr. Some people learn slower.

[Jarrett]

If you don't have a type of traction control it might be a good idea to switch to "eco" mode when riding on wet streets.

I guess this where I wonder if its different.  I get that first time riders might not respect the bike and fall.  I get that some might go out when its wet and under estimate the bike and fall.

What I'm wondering about is a rider with experience on the bike out on a nice, sunny, warm, dry day being surprised and taking a spill because the bike behaved in a way that was unexpected and had not occurred in thousands of miles of previous riding on the bike. 

My VFR1200X is 127hp and 93ft-lbs. of torque.  It's easily as powerful and faster than the DSR.  I've put 5,000 miles on it now and have felt what it does in a lot of different situations.  I have no concern that I will take it out tomorrow on a dry, warm day and have it spin out from underneath me.  Despite that, this sort of thing seems to have with Zero R model owners.  And I can't help but wonder why.

[Jarrett]

I called Jeff at Zero and he talked me off the ledge.  He said if you are functional with the FX, then being safe on the DSR+PT shouldn't be a big change.

[Doug S]

By far the most dangerous part on any motorcycle is the loose nut behind the handlebar.

[Say10 15FX 16FXS]

By far the most dangerous part on any motorcycle is the loose nut behind the handlebar.

And the cheapest part on a motorcycle is the rider!

But seriously, you could set the custom settings to 50% or whatever.

[Jarrett]

By far the most dangerous part on any motorcycle is the loose nut behind the handlebar.

Ain't that the truth.

But seriously, you could set the custom settings to 50% or whatever.

If I was going to do that, I should save a few thousand and get the DS.

I do appreciate the custom setting, but I use it on my FX for off road stuff with 0% torque.  I might not need that on the DSR though as the Eco mode seems REALLY low torque.

[flattetyre]

You know bikes have more than 1 wheel and more than 1 way to lose traction. If you're asking this you don't belong on a motorcycle on the street.

If you ride carefully you won't ask for enough throttle to crash the bike even in full sport mode. The exception to this is if you get emotional, like pissed off. Then you will grab throttle and if you don't have the skills to handle what comes your crash will start in milliseconds.

The solution is be very careful about managing your emotions and responses to irritating shit on the street. Oh and maybe practice basic bike competency drills in a parking lot: figure 8s, circles, emergency braking, etc. Yeah, that might be a good idea....

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I have fishtailed a 2013 DS in wet/muddy conditions. No emotional excursion is required to break traction on a Zero if the surface conditions are slippery enough.

I've never gone down from the issue, but the wheel can spin up quickly if you're not too observant. Once you're accustomed to how this happens, it's very easy to avoid and handle, particularly because the bike has no other operator mindfulness issues with power delivery, like shifting or stalling.

And there is absolutely no parking lot practice I'm aware of even in advanced road courses that will prepare you for what a Zero will do.

In summary, this is both a valid concern for a rider at any experience level, and also not a big deal to handle with practice. I feel safer on my DSR than on my V-Strom.

[Jarrett]

You know bikes have more than 1 wheel and more than 1 way to lose traction. If you're asking this you don't belong on a motorcycle on the street.

lol, wut?

[Jarrett]

I have fishtailed a 2013 DS in wet/muddy conditions.

Yes, I can make my FX dance all over the place off pavement.

I feel safer on my DSR than on my V-Strom.

That's good to hear.