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[swiftsam]

I got on my bike a couple of days ago to go to work and got the blinking red light instead of the green no matter what I did.

This is a video of the startup, showing the warning indicator blinking continuously


The blink sequence is continuous which doesn't really map to any of the error codes in the manual which all have a [blink x N] pause [blink x N] format.

There were no signs of trouble on the previous ride, and there doesn't seem to be any trouble with the charging. I may have rolled the bike a bit as it was booting up which I have a faint memory of doing once before and causing a weird state. I've done all kinds of powering on and off and rolling back and forth in the last 3 days but every time it starts up as in the video above.

Anyone have any ideas?

I downloaded the full bike logs and put them here


This is the first time I tried to start it and got the error. Nothing jumps out at me as an explanation but there is some extra noise around enabling / disabling charging mode

Code: [Select]

03048     05/28/2019 04:47:48   Key On
03049     05/28/2019 04:47:48   Leaving Charge Standby Mode
03050     05/28/2019 04:47:48   Sevcon Turned On
03051     05/28/2019 04:47:48   INFO:  Enabling Charger 1
03052     05/28/2019 04:47:48   INFO:  Enabling Charger 2
03053     05/28/2019 04:47:48   Sevcon CAN Link Down
03054     05/28/2019 04:47:49   Sevcon CAN Link Up
03055     05/28/2019 04:47:49   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF
03056     05/28/2019 04:47:49   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
03057     05/28/2019 04:47:49   Module 00 Closing Contactor  vmod: 115.676V, maxsys: 115.677V, minsys: 115.677V, diff: 0.000V, vcap:  0.000V, prechg: 0%
03058     05/28/2019 04:47:50   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
03059     05/28/2019 04:47:50   INFO:  Enabling Charger 0
03060     05/28/2019 04:47:50   Contactor took 99 ms to close
03061     05/28/2019 04:47:50   0x3e 0xa8 0x5b 0x01 0x00 0x38 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0x69 0x5b 0x01 0x00 0xf9 0xc0 0x01 0x00 0x69 0x5b 0x01 0x00 0x38 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0x6e 0x6f 0x01 0x00 0xa0 0xba 0x01 0x00 0xab 0x99 0x01 0x00 0xbb 0xc0 0x01 0x00 0x2e 0x99 0x01 0x00 0x38 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0xef 0x98 0x01 0x00 0x38 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0xb1 0x98 0x01 0x00 0x76 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0xa9 0xc3 0x01 0x00 0x7c 0xc0 0x01 0x00 0xa9 0xc3 0x01 0x00 0xbb 0xc0 0x01 0x00 ???
03062     05/28/2019 04:47:58   Charging                   PackTemp: h 25C, l 24C, AmbTemp: 0C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.608V, BattAmps:   1, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
03063     05/28/2019 04:48:08   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Charging mode to Running mode
03064     05/28/2019 04:48:08   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
03065     05/28/2019 04:48:08   INFO:  Disabling Charger 0
03066     05/28/2019 04:48:09   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Running mode to Charging mode
03067     05/28/2019 04:48:09   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
03068     05/28/2019 04:48:10   INFO:  Enabling Charger 0
03069     05/28/2019 04:48:12   Calex 720W Charger 0 Disconnected
03070     05/28/2019 04:48:12   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Charging mode to Running mode
03071     05/28/2019 04:48:12   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
03072     05/28/2019 04:48:12   INFO:  Disabling Charger 0
03073                       0   DEBUG: Reset: Power-On, External
03074                       0   Power On                   Key Switch
03075                       0   Key On
03076                       0   Module 00 Opening Contactor  vmod:   0.000V, batt curr:   0A
03077                       0   Module 01 Opening Contactor  vmod:   0.000V, batt curr:   0A
03078                       0   CAN0 ACK error. count=1
03079                       0   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
03080                       0   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Open
03081                       0   Module 00 CAN Link Up
03082                       0   Module 00 Registered       serial: ,  vmod: 115.694V


This is a normal startup from earlier in the week

Code: [Select]

02695     05/22/2019 04:54:08   Key On
 02696     05/22/2019 04:54:08   Leaving Charge Standby Mode
 02697     05/22/2019 04:54:08   Sevcon Turned On
 02698     05/22/2019 04:54:08   INFO:  Enabling Charger 1
 02699     05/22/2019 04:54:08   INFO:  Enabling Charger 2
 02700     05/22/2019 04:54:08   Sevcon CAN Link Down
 02701     05/22/2019 04:54:09   Sevcon CAN Link Up
 02702     05/22/2019 04:54:09   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive OFF
 02703     05/22/2019 04:54:09   DEBUG: Sevcon Contactor Drive ON.
 02704     05/22/2019 04:54:09   Module 00 Closing Contactor  vmod: 115.966V, maxsys: 115.967V, minsys: 115.967V, diff: 0.000V, vcap:  0.000V, prechg: 0%
 02705     05/22/2019 04:54:09   DEBUG: Module 00 Contactor is now Closed
 02706     05/22/2019 04:54:09   INFO:  Enabling Charger 0
 02707     05/22/2019 04:54:09   Contactor took 104 ms to close
 02708     05/22/2019 04:54:09   0x3e 0x25 0x5c 0x01 0x00 0x32 0xc2 0x01 0x00 0x25 0x5c 0x01 0x00 0xf3 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0xe6 0x5b 0x01 0x00 0xf3 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0xeb 0x6f 0x01 0x00 0xd9 0xbb 0x01 0x00 0xa5 0x9a 0x01 0x00 0xf3 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0x28 0x9a 0x01 0x00 0xf3 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0xe9 0x99 0x01 0x00 0xf3 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0xab 0x99 0x01 0x00 0x32 0xc2 0x01 0x00 0x64 0xc4 0x01 0x00 0x76 0xc1 0x01 0x00 0x64 0xc4 0x01 0x00 0x38 0xc1 0x01 0x00 ???
 02709     05/22/2019 04:54:18   Charging                   PackTemp: h 20C, l 19C, AmbTemp: 0C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.943V, BattAmps:   1, Mods: 01, MbbChgEn: Yes, BmsChgEn: No
 02710     05/22/2019 04:54:22   DEBUG: Module scheme changed from Charging mode to Running mode
 02711     05/22/2019 04:54:22   DEBUG: Module mode Change Does Not Require Disconnect
 02712     05/22/2019 04:54:22   INFO:  Disabling Charger 0
 02713     05/22/2019 04:54:26   Calex 720W Charger 0 Disconnected
 02714     05/22/2019 05:04:18   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 19C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:115.495V, MotAmps:  -7, BattAmps:   0, Mods: 10, MotTemp:  38C, CtrlTemp:  26C, AmbTemp:   0C, MotRPM: 602, Odo:    0km
 02715     05/22/2019 05:05:18   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 19C, PackSOC:100%, Vpack:114.756V, MotAmps:  61, BattAmps:  24, Mods: 10, MotTemp:  40C, CtrlTemp:  27C, AmbTemp:   0C, MotRPM:1774, Odo:    0km
 02716     05/22/2019 05:06:18   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 19C, PackSOC: 97%, Vpack:110.828V, MotAmps: 141, BattAmps: 132, Mods: 10, MotTemp:  46C, CtrlTemp:  31C, AmbTemp:   0C, MotRPM:4207, Odo:    0km
 02717     05/22/2019 05:07:18   Riding                     PackTemp: h 20C, l 19C, PackSOC: 97%, Vpack:115.106V, MotAmps: -40, BattAmps: -23, Mods: 10, MotTemp:  47C, CtrlTemp:  29C, AmbTemp:   0C, MotRPM:2442, Odo:    0km


[Curt]

Could it be a bad kickstand switch so that it still thinks the kickstand is down (mine blinks red like that when kickstand down).
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Kickstand_Switch

[Richard230]

Could it be a bad kickstand switch so that it still thinks the kickstand is down (mine blinks red like that when kickstand down).
https://zeromanual.com/wiki/Unofficial_Service_Manual#Kickstand_Switch

To me, that seems like a good place to start.  Those kick stand safety switches tend to fail on a number of different brands.  People who own Royal Enfields experience this failure so often that they just remove and bypass the thing.

[swiftsam]

Thanks guys. The kickstand sensor was actually my first thought, but I convinced myself that the blink pattern was different. I've put the kickstand up and down 100 times hoping it would reset or something, but it seems bad. I really wish the kickstand status was reported in the logs.

I think I'm going to see if I can get the OBD-II dongle from hollywood electrics so that I can bypass the kickstand interlock in the MBB settings. That seems easier than the instructions for replacing the sensor, but I'm more of a software guy.  It's not clear how much of the documentation applies to the 2013. I'm hoping just enough, wish me luck!

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I've owned both a 2013 and 2016 Zero model, and the ODB-II + MBB access and settings should be the same. That knowledge is certainly incorporated into the unofficial manual.

For sure, if you ever deal with that kickstand switch, be extra careful not to short the wires which could incapacitate your MBB.

[swiftsam]

Making progress ....

- Hollywood Electrics hooked me up very quickly with the diginow OBDII bluetooth adapter
- I found OBD port which had apparently been moved under the seat during my recent battery replacement
- I can find and pair with the bluetooth device from either my android phone or mac

I have not, however, been able to summon the MBB terminal. I am trying both Serial for Mac and BlueTerm on android. I can get the terminal to say it's connected, but I can't get the "ZERO MBB>" prompt (or any command line prompt).  When I connect, both apps give me just a blank blue window.

I'm using the terminal settings from the unofficial manual, ie

 - 38400 baud
 - 8-N-1
 - Newline is CR-LF, the DOS/Windows convention.

at least in Serial, BlueTerm doesn't have config for baud or bits. 

Anyone recognize this predicament and have any tips?

btw, amazing work on the unofficial manual. It's pretty crazy that I can even kind of feel like I know what I'm doing diving into this. Thanks!

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Okay, so this will either sound dumb or revelatory, but: when presented with the blank window, did you press the "return" (or "enter") key? The MBB won't emit a prompt over the wire until then.


EDIT: or type "help<enter>" or "login<enter>"

[swiftsam]

definitely not dumb, thanks. the problem is right in that step.  I definitely have hit "return" ... once, twice, 3 times while jumping up and down. I even tried sending CR and LF in hex.

For some reason that exchange in which I hit enter and it responds with a prompt is what's not happening. I'll fiddle with the CR/LF settings to see if I can get one through.

I wonder if I've got the most recent firmware because it just came back from the factory and maybe something is different about how this works?

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The ODB-II plug lost its happenstance 3.3V power supply "rail" in 2017, but even a battery upgrade on a 2013 model shouldn't lead to that change (the MBB supplies the power, though).

If the DigiNow dongle you have has a power LED indicator, it should light up if there's power.

If not, a direct serial connection to the RX+TX pins should remove uncertainty about that, but I can't figure out why you'd be in that scenario.

[swiftsam]

I don't know if I'm going to crack this case without a trip to the dealership. 

I believe the bluetooth OBD dongle is getting power since I can see it show up as a bluetooth device and connect successfully.  But after ran out of things to try I ordered parts for a wired connection in case my dongle was the problem.

I bought this OBD-II plug and this usb to terminal and assembled pretty easily following this guide (How to build a cable to access the MBB).  But I got stuck at the same point, no MBB response. All the "green lights" come on in CoolTerm so it feels like the terminal connection itself is valid.

I made a screencast of the (lack of) response from the MBB just for documentation really:



And just for fun, this is what it looks like trying to connect to your bike over serial after the kids go to bed out on a Brooklyn sidewalk.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Yeah, that's a familiar scene to me. I'd guess the wiring is loose, then, on RX or TX lines of the OBD-II port.

Either you or the dealer should check continuity between the outside of the connector with the receiving end that connects to the MBB (check the wiring diagram but confirm wire colors, etc, and do it while the bike is dead/disconnected).

I can't think of a reasonable way to confirm that the transmit (TX) line is working, but that'd be at least something to prove. You'd have to anticipate what commands to send to toggle something safe but provides a dash indication or something.

[swiftsam]

I'm in!  I had at least two problems

1. I bought a 3.3v serial cable by accident. After asking an EE at work for tips, and confirming that the DIY instructions say to use 5V, I bought this 5v cable.

2. CoolTerm for Mac wasn't working. I think it didn't have drivers for the USB serial cable, so I was selecting the most reasonable sounding "device" which was SOC and that is not the correct thing. I had already used up the 7 day free trial of Serial for Mac in an earlier phase of this process, so I ponied up the $30 and it immediately showed "USB UART" as the device.

After that it was easy, I was right in. I was able to confirm that my kickstand switch is bad (indicates 'down' no matter where the kickstand is). Woohoo!

Now all I need to do is bypass the kickstand interlock. It seems like I would do that via the 'set' command but I'm guessing you need a login for that? If anyone would be so kind to email (samswift at gmail) or dm me specifics on that, it would be amazing.

Code: [Select]

ZERO MBB> login
ogin
Login Level: 0


Code: [Select]

ZERO MBB> set
set

*************************************************************
*                   System Settings Menu                    *
*************************************************************

  model           - Model Name                                   SS
  vin             - VIN Number                   [redacted]
  serial          - Serial Number             2013_mbb_[redacted]
  runtime         - Total Run Time                   00000:18:24:55


[swiftsam]

Just bumping this in case anyone out there knows the MBB login passwords and might share them with me privately.

I have MBB access and want to bypass my broken kickstand sensor and ride to the shop to get a new one instead of paying for a $250 tow to replace a $30 part.

[swiftsam]

I fixed it! 

I ordered a kickstand sensor through my closest dealership and it was drop shipped to me in about a week. It took about 40 minutes to replace following the Unofficial Manual instructions.

So in retrospect I could have cut my 3 month problem solving journey substantially shorter, but I learned a lot along the way and I'm back on the road. Thanks for the help.

[mcambaza]

Hi there
Please help me find a kickstand sensor... My sensor is giving me hell and leaving me stranded miles away from home. Zero DS FZ MY14 2014. +258824001920 WhatsApp

Can't find it with any dealer