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[DonTom]

Some here assumed the reasons for not charging to 100% was just for safety. Well, the new SR/F Owner's Manual cleared all this up on page 1.3.


-Don- Reno, NV

[MostlyBonkers]

I'm glad that Zero have spelt out charging best practice in their SRF manual.  Their advice used to be to leave the bike plugged in at all times and many of us did exactly that.

The SRF's ability to set SoC limits and charging times is going to be a great help to people wanting their battery to last as long as possible.  Letting a hot battery cool a bit before charging wasn't really practical before.  The risk of forgetting to go back to the bike was too great.

I wouldn't be surprised if the battery on my DS died as a result of charging it at high temperatures. We had a hot summer and the battery was reaching 40C towards the end of my commute. Plugging it straight in when I got to work probably didn't do it any favours.  I didn't realise the battery was getting so hot on my commute until I started monitoring it to see why I was losing power and unable to maintain 70mph despite still having a high SoC.  I think there was more to it though; a coupe of bad cells were reported in the logs and I just wonder why they went bad.  Water ingress might still have been a root cause but I'll never know...

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

The manual in this case is just more specific than the charging guidelines:
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/charging-recommendations/

It still doesn't explain what the reasons are, unlike the OP's statement.

[Doug S]

It still doesn't explain what the reasons are, unlike the OP's statement.

I think the reason is pretty clear: To extend the battery life. My question is, how much? I'd much rather be able to just plug my bike in and have it maintain 100% charge until I unplug it. I realize that may reduce the battery's life, but a 2% reduction in battery life is a very different thing than a 25% reduction. I want to have that information and make my own decisions rather than be at the mercy of firmware that lets the battery discharge when it's still plugged in, whether I want it to or not.

[DonTom]

The manual in this case is just more specific than the charging guidelines:
https://www.zeromotorcycles.com/owner-resources/charging-recommendations/

It still doesn't explain what the reasons are, unlike the OP's statement.

The reason I was referring to was "better for your power pack than charging it right after each
ride and having it sit for days between rides at a high state "  IOW, for battery longevity, not safety.

However, I do not understand this part:

" going for a few rides before recharging will prolong
your power pack’s life by limiting the amount of time it
spends parked at a high state of charge"

That doesn't make sense to me, unless they mean (but did not say) recharging MUCH  later, not right away.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

I think the reason is pretty clear: To extend the battery life. My question is, how much? I'd much rather be able to just plug my bike in and have it maintain 100% charge until I unplug it. I realize that may reduce the battery's life, but a 2% reduction in battery life is a very different thing than a 25% reduction. I want to have that information and make my own decisions rather than be at the mercy of firmware that lets the battery discharge when it's still plugged in, whether I want it to or not.

Agreed. It's a hassle to leave the bike at a 60% charge. I will continue to charge to 100% as I have been doing, unless I plan to not use the bike for more than a month or so-- then it may be worth the trouble.

If they said it would void the battery's warranty to continuously charge to 100%, perhaps I would feel differently. And since there is a five year warranty on the batteries, I am still in warranty on both my bikes.

-Don- Reno, NV

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Thank you for clarifying. Yes, in that sense, it is explaining the motivations and what concern the owner should identify.

They do in fact mean recharging as late as possible.

The continuous duration of time spent at or near 100% is the contributing factor to pack longevity concerns. I don't think "how much" can be reasonably communicated by a manufacturer yet without opening them up to (justified or not) lawsuits, so they don't.

I do agree that owners deserve better information *and* control over charging. I'm not sure how we get that without the unofficial manual, but I'm unpaid and demotivated to work on it.

But I will say I make sure that if the bike sits for a long period, the SoC stays between 40 and 85%.

[MostlyBonkers]

I think the reason is pretty clear: To extend the battery life. My question is, how much? I'd much rather be able to just plug my bike in and have it maintain 100% charge until I unplug it. I realize that may reduce the battery's life, but a 2% reduction in battery life is a very different thing than a 25% reduction. I want to have that information and make my own decisions rather than be at the mercy of firmware that lets the battery discharge when it's still plugged in, whether I want it to or not.

Agreed. It's a hassle to leave the bike at a 60% charge. I will continue to charge to 100% as I have been doing, unless I plan to not use the bike for more than a month or so-- then it may be worth the trouble.

If they said it would void the battery's warranty to continuously charge to 100%, perhaps I would feel differently. And since there is a five year warranty on the batteries, I am still in warranty on both my bikes.

-Don- Reno, NV

If you're using your bike regularly, then perhaps it's best to charge to 80%.  I think a lot of Tesla owners do that and only top up if they are planning a long journey. If 80% gives you enough range for most of your journeys, then you're not keeping it at 100% all the time.  Also, it might only take a couple of hours to top up from 80% which is a bit easier to live with.

I try to keep my bike at a 60-70% SoC if I know I won't be using it for a day or two. It is a pain having to be organised enough to top it up in plenty of time before a longer ride though.  A number of times I've decided I want to go for a ride only to find the bike won't be fully charged for another three hours...

[DonTom]

I wouldn't be surprised if the battery on my DS died as a result of charging it at high temperatures. We had a hot summer and the battery was reaching 40C towards the end of my commute. Plugging it straight in when I got to work probably didn't do it any favours.

When it is hot, I run a large fan on the bike's battery before I start charging and them leave the fan on as I am charging.

I don't think these bikes are designed for Las Vegas or Phoenix type summers!

And once in a while Reno (or Auburn) will get even hotter than those two places.  Just not so continuously.

-Don-  Reno, NV

 

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I wouldn't be surprised if the battery on my DS died as a result of charging it at high temperatures. We had a hot summer and the battery was reaching 40C towards the end of my commute. Plugging it straight in when I got to work probably didn't do it any favours.

When it is hot, I run a large fan on the bike's battery before I start charging and them leave the fan on as I am charging.

I don't think these bikes are designed for Las Vegas or Phoenix type summers!

And once in a while Reno (or Auburn) will get even hotter than those two places.  Just not so contentiously.

The page of the manual you cite specifically calls out hot weather as when not to leave the battery fully charged for a long period, though. It indirectly implies that the heat generated during charging is less of a risk than leaving the bike charged in a high ambient temperature.

[Richard230]

I will continue to charge my battery to 100% as it is likely that the battery pack will outlast me and I am sure that it will certainly last well beyond the time that my Zero gets replaced with a new model. 

[DonTom]

If you're using your bike regularly, then perhaps it's best to charge to 80%.  I think a lot of Tesla owners do that and only top up if they are planning a long journey. If 80% gives you enough range for most of your journeys, then you're not keeping it at 100% all the time.  Also, it might only take a couple of hours to top up from 80% which is a bit easier to live with.

I try to keep my bike at a 60-70% SoC if I know I won't be using it for a day or two. It is a pain having to be organised enough to top it up in plenty of time before a longer ride though.  A number of times I've decided I want to go for a ride only to find the bike won't be fully charged for another three hours...

With my Tesla Model Three they say to leave it plugged in at all times. But we can set the charge to start at any time and to stop charging at any percentage of charge we set it for.  And max range is 310 miles but only use that when needed and set it for 280 miles for any other use. So that's more like charge to 90% and we keep it there.

I assume the cells they use in our Zero's are different than what  the Tesla M3 uses.

BTW, on the Tesla the charging times is per location. It uses the GPS. I have mine to start charging at 2300 hrs at my house in Auburn, but 2200 hrs when here in Reno. This is automatic, I touch nothing other than plug it in. Any new location is instant charging.

Some places have lower rates for night charging to EV owners. But can start  at different times for a different area. Reno reduces the rate at 2200 hrs, and Auburn does at 2300 hrs.

By any chance does the SR/F have a GPS that I didn't notice? My Tesla uses the GPS to remember many things. For an example, if I fold  the mirrors in for a tight spot, the next time I get to that location my mirrors will automatically fold in when I get there.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[DonTom]

I will continue to charge my battery to 100% as it is likely that the battery pack will outlast me and I am sure that it will certainly last well beyond the time that my Zero gets replaced with a new model. 

That's exactly how I feel about it all.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[MostlyBonkers]

The SRF does have GPS so perhaps they could do some clever location based charging in a later software update.

[MostlyBonkers]

I will continue to charge my battery to 100% as it is likely that the battery pack will outlast me and I am sure that it will certainly last well beyond the time that my Zero gets replaced with a new model. 

You make me laugh Richard. You will not alter your charging habits, no matter what! ;-)

Not having a full charge when you want to use the bike is a pain, so I do sympathise with the stance that you and DonTom take.