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[zap mc]

Does anyone have a picture of the cells inside a 2012 era Zero. I am looking to see if the EIG cells were packaged with the factory enclosures or if Zero made their own

[Richard230]

I can't find a photo of the battery pack, but I do recall being giving a factory tour by the company CEO in December 2012.  I was shown the battery assembly area, which wasn't much more than a table in the corner of the factory, and told that was where the EIG pouch cells were assembled into the battery case.  At the time there was nothing going on at the factory, other than a lot of crates of 2012 Zeros along side the building that were in the process of being shipped to Columbia for use by their police forces.

[zap mc]

Thanks for the prompt reply Richard, my question centres around whether Zero used the factory cell encasement to make the battery pack or whether they used their own or another.

[Richard230]

Thanks for the prompt reply Richard, my question centres around whether Zero used the factory cell encasement to make the battery pack or whether they used their own or another.
I would post a picture of the cell but the file is too large to add from a tablet

I was lead to believe that Zero used their own cell encasement, after assembling the individual cells by hand at the factory.  However, I am sure that they sourced the battery case from some outside supplier and it was not manufactured in their factory.  Attached is a photo of my bike showing its battery case.  It looks to me like they just dropped the battery case into the frame after it was assembled at the factory. 

[zap mc]

I have managed to list the picture now.
As you can see the actual pouch cell sits in its own cell holder which is an aluminium shell one side and open the other side.
These factory made holders then clip together ( can be bolted through holes in the holder ) to form the whole battery.

I am trying to establish whether Zero used these EIG factory holders for the pouch cells or whether they did something else ?

[igorbaldo]

These pictures are from a 2012S battery pack. As you can see, Zero utilized the EIG holders on them...

EDIT: the last picture shows what probably leads to fault.

[zap mc]

Thanks for that Igor, very helpful.
It does look like the factory holders but it would be good to see a bit more to understand how they are put together and what bus bars they have used. That side panel has a load of screws on it as well.

The last cell looks a bit bent but the problem was apparently the cells chafing together in some way.

If you have any more pictures I would be grateful of a PM

[eskim06]

I have lots of pictures from my 2012 XU battery and my 2012 S battery. These batteries are in my garage now. What do u want to see?

[zap mc]

Hi, thanks for your offer it’s really appreciated, I am investigating the cause of the battery fires which is said to be because of the cells chafing against the cell dividers/holders. So firstly I want to see how Zero actually used the EIG cells and how they combined them together. Particularly whether they used the original cell holders from EIG and if they did how they held them together ( there is space in the 4 corners of the cell holders to insert threaded rods to hold the pack together. ) also what bus bars were used between the cells as EIG do not supply these to my knowledge.
And how this pack was mounted inside the battery pack itself. Finally if there is any evidence of cell chafing against the battery holder inside the packin any if the cells. If you still have an EIG pack I would assume that this is an important safety consideration for you in any case to guard against the packs combusting. Are your batteries sill live or bricked?

[eskim06]

 Picture of my 2012 Zero XU battery is attached. Chaffing may be unlikely in my personal opinion. The cell pouches appeared to be packed too tight to allow chaffing and the pressure built up appeared to have warped the pouch cell cases. I had pouch rupture issue on 2012 Zero XU battery and 2012 Zero S battery. I still have that entire 2012 Zero S bike my possession and examined each pouch cell carefully for damage by taking the battery apart.
 Here is what I observed. 50% of those cells were bad and and not recovered and the majority of these bad cells were ruptured and leaking. The other 50% of pouch cells that were not ruptured and not leaking were recovered. The 2012 Zero XU battery was damaged in a similar manner with ruptured leaking cells destroyed and good cell that I recovered. This are what I observed and documented with pictures.
 I have enough recovered pouch cells to rebuild the 2012 Zero S battery and will be doing so shortly. I don't express any opinion as to what caused this this battery failure to happen as I am not qualified to do so.

[zap mc]

Thanks very much for posting a pic and the detailed explanation of your situation.
I do notice signs of moisture ingress on the bms board which is interesting.
Expansion and contraction of the pouch cell against the aluminum holder would in itself cause a certain amount of chafing and pressure points could develop where the plastic skin is wrinkled.
I am interested in your comments about the cells puffing up and rupturing, and wonder if this is a result of overcharging? That’s SERIOUS pressure to wharp the cell cases.
Either the bms is calibrated incorrectly from the factory or the moisture corrosion throws out the values by increased resistance to make the values incorrect?
The EIG cell profile has a top voltage of 4.15v and so I wonder what voltage level the bms is set to charge to? Remembering that this is the part of the system that Zero designed themselves rather than it being down to the manufacturer. The earlier Molicel cells were at 4.2v so quite a close match.
Anyone with experience at designing a bms feel free to tell us what voltage you would charge at for a 4.15v lithium cell

[xulucas]

No idea if you are still interested but I have load of pics as well.

If you want more I could dig in.

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[zap mc]

Really interesting, thank you. Can you explain the corrosion and what year and bike it was from?
Is this from a bike that had a failure or fire? Or is it still working?
I would be interested to see the inside of the cell compartment to see what the condition of the cells looks like and if this series of cells has the extra green plastic on the cell and what the serial numbers are on the cell.
You are welcome to PM me

[xulucas]

The battery is from a 2012 xu. I bought it in 12 and drove 6 years some 12000 kilometer in Berlin Germany. I drove through snow, rain, in cold and heat.

I am currently trying to repair the battery. I found a set of new cells and exchanged 80 percent. The best 4 of the original stack are still in.
When I mounted the new and old cells I noticed a difference in the cases. There are slightly bigger and smaller cases. Difference is around 1 millimeter.
All my old cells were corroded. It all smelled a little like acid. Some of the old cells (around 3) were puffed. 1 heavily. That one made a huge pressure in the block. It distorted the construction slightly. And yes they all had a green plastic on the back side. Like a translucent sticker.

My big disappointment is that the BMS will not give out its final green light. It balances the pack (at 4.2 volts) perfectly  but keeps on giving a small red light. Therefore the motor will not start.
It drives me crazy because I have no clue.

I am currently abroad and can't send you more pics. I have m at home on my computer.

The battery never had fire. It was officially checked not be in the serie that got a replacement.

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