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[valnar]

Hi folks!  I saw a Zero bike for the first time at my dealer and after hours/days of research I am very intrigued!  Other than price and distance (right?!), I think this is the bike for me.

I'm 6'4" and 200 pounds.  Most bikes don't fit me.  After I took the basic rider course 5 years ago and got my endorsement, I set out to buy a Honda Nighthawk CB650SC.  It was from 1985, had a shaft drive and carburetor.  I was never completely happy with the bike and all the manual shifting, nor did I feel that comfortable so I sold it 2 years later after barely riding it.  Oh, and I don't think I have the guts to get on the freeway and go 75mph.  I never did.  I can happily say I never crashed, but only dropped it once at a stoplight.

That being said, I am drawn toward classic looking bikes.  I love the way they look, and the flat seats tend to work better for my 35" inseam. So I started looking again since it's Spring.  Maybe I can find something better?

What I like:
Small, light, nimble
Don't care about going fast
Want a standard, upright (read: fun) position
DCT, automatic, or gearless is a plus
Low maintenance is a plus
Storage space

Even though it didn't check all the boxes, the Honda NC700X (or NC750X) caught my eye.  DCT is awesome and it's <750cc, but it is still heavier than my old Honda.  It also has some storage.  It fits some of the requirements so it's squarely on the list.

The second one which started this whole research a month ago is the new Genuine G400C.  It's basically an old Honda updated with EFI and other modern standards.  I fit great on it!  It's so sexy (to me) that I think I could get by with improving my manual/clutch technique and just dealing with it.  It's the right size motor, weight, looks, price, almost everything.  Downside is motor maintenance and that chain.

The same dealer sold Zero.  I saw them, sat on several, and although one of the S/DS models would be more practical, only the FX fit my long frame.  Could that work?  Hmm.  For around town commuting and seeing friends, it just might.

I'm not planning on going 75+ a freeway - check
Low maintenance; no oil changes - check
No clutch or gear changing! - check
Upright position - check
Small, light nimble - check

So one downside (which is the same ones for everyone) is the lack of range.  It's also not classic looking, but seeing how this is its own category it can be forgiven.  It has a cool factor all its own in a way that the UJM's did from the 70's.  Unfortunately it doesn't have storage, so I'd be that backpack guy carrying my laptop & lunch to work.

As much as I love that Honda NC700X, the weight is really a big con.  I think if Honda came out with a NC500X I would be all over it.  I don't need or want a liter bike, nor anything over 500 pounds. That takes the fun out of it, to me.  But everything is a compromise.  I don't need a new 750X, but perhaps an older used 700X would fit the bill (pun intended).  In either case, it's less $$ than the Zero FX/S 7.2.

The Genuine G400C at $4500 is so cheap that it definitely makes the list.  In fact at that price, I could buy it and still save up for a Zero later.  I was the most comfortable on that bike overall.

My fourth choice, which lets face it, if logic dictated my decision would be the one -- is a Scooter.  Sigh...  Well I've already established that I'm vain so I can't do it.  I know only one person who has a scooter in my area and she's the daughter of one of my friends.  You know, those friends with Harley or Honda ICE bikes.  lol.  Maybe when I get older (I'm 50) and care less about that stuff, a scooter will be in my future.

So those are my three options and I'm torn on what to buy.  I'm not a motorcycle collector so one will have to do me for now.  However given proper funding, if I could have two and one of them was the Zero FX that would be great.  I only want to deal with maintenance on one ICE bike.

Choices, or tl;dr
Honda NC700X DCT (preferably used if I can find it)
Genuine G400C (can only buy new since it IS brand new)
Zero FX or FXS 7.2 (would only WANT to buy new, cuz ya know - batteries)

Thanks for reading!  I'll be spending some time here doing research. A shout out to ClevelandMoto who had most of these bikes there, including every scooter I could possibly imagine.
https://www.clevelandmoto.com/

-Robert

[NEW2elec]

Hi, welcome aboard. 
Some quick info on me, electric only rider, that started in his 40s, is cheap, and hates debt.  That said sadly ICE bikes win in the up front cost category.  Your a grown man and can do what you want but if money's tight electric might not be for you yet.

Overall they are pretty dependable for a newer type of bike but if something goes wrong down the line it can be pricey to replace.  An onboard charger will be about $800 out of warranty.  Other parts, DC-DC converter and controller would run $400-$800 installed.
These costs can be offset by buying used but that's up to you.

The feel of an electric ride is awesome and the day to day month to month maintenance is much lower than a gas bike but there still is some.  You really get the benefits when you get out and put miles on it weekly.  My older Zero (DS) has over 29k miles on it with no noticeable range loss.  With about $700 in repairs not counting tires which is a cost no matter what bike you get.  I got it used at a much reduced cost so I'm way ahead of the game.  That's all I'll say about money since it turns so many people off but I like to be real with new guys on here and let them choose.

You talked about storage on the FX so here is what one looks like with the top case.  I "think" side cases are also an option but it would be overkill for the small bike feel of this bike.

https://www.cycletrader.com/listing/2019-Zero-FX-72-5005242411

Do some more research on here and watch some Youtube video reviews (there is a lot) and test ride one if you haven't to get a real feel for it.  There is a five year battery warranty so don't worry too much about a used one for loss of range.

Good luck.

[valnar]

Thanks for the info!  Well money is always tight, that is true, but you find it for things you like.  Test riding the FX/S would be key for me.

I want to do some more research on the FX vs FXS.  I think I want the FXS overall as it might be safer for me on the streets (??)

So other than tires and brakes (and charging), what kind of regular maintenance do Zero bikes require?  I read much of the Unofficial Zero manual and if I were to believe half of it, I'd be constantly working on this bike.  I'm sure that can't be the case.  I never work on my two cars.  I take them into the dealer at regular maintenance intervals and that is that.

[NEW2elec]

If you don't have any desire to go off road the FXS would be great.  The FX gives you more fork travel and can soak up potholes better but for a pure back road or slow traffic filled roads the FXS is great. Also it sits a little lower so there is that for your height.

As for maintenance I'll admit I'm more of a fix what's not working than a keep everything in tip top shape ALWAYS kind of guy. 
The new bikes use whats called an IPM motor that needs to be serviced at the dealer every 8k miles.  Takes a little time on a laptop.  Then there is tires and brakes (brake fluid more than pads)  fork oil and that's about it unless something breaks.  The chargers are the current weak point for most people.

Here's a little fun video of a guy zipping through London on a FXS.  Just remember you'll get about 60 miles of mixed riding with more if your slower and less if you punch it.  So that part has to work for you.  He gives his thoughts at around 16:30 if you get tried of watching him lane split like a mad man.

[Jarrett]

I own a 2012 NC700X DCT and a 2019 Zero FX.  I also own an Africa Twin DCT and VFR1200X DCT.

I've also ridden the Zero DS, DSR and SR/F a few times.  I have a Zero DSR + Power Tank on order.  In the past, I've owned a KLR650 and CRF250L.

Something to be said up front, I'm an acceleration junkie.  The main thing I like about motorcycles is that they accelerate hard and corner hard.  Also, I don't like manual shifting.  I came from riding/racing supercharged jetskis to riding motorcycles.  And on those, you pull the throttle and hang on so you don't roll off the back. 

Out of all the motorcycles I've ridden, the Zero's match that experience the closest, that's why I like them so much.  They are like riding supercharged jetskis on land.  Roll the throttle and hang on.  But you can also configure them to have much less acceleration if you want.  That's pretty cool.

The difference between the NC700X and FX is pretty vast.  The NC700X is faster, but the FX is quicker.  The FX is more nimble, but the NC700X feels more planted on the road.  The NC700X can do 200+ miles a tank, the FX is realistically 30-60 miles total per charge, then 11 hours to recharge.

The NC700X DCT does weigh 211 lbs. more than the FX, but due to the low center of gravity, the NC700X does not feel like a 500 lb bike.  I have a 520 lb Africa Twin and it feels 100 lbs heavier than the NC700X.  The NC700X is surprisingly nimble for its weight.

If you don't care about acceleration and speed, the NC700X probably makes a lot more sense.  I got mine for $3500.  The FX is a lot more fun to me, but it was $9800 new before TTL. 

Since I do care about acceleration, I am selling my Africa Twin DCT and would sell my NC700X DCT if my daughter would let me (she rides it) and I'm buying more Zero bikes.  I will however keep the VFR1200X as it accelerates like the DSR or harder, tops out at 130 mph and can go 200 miles a tank full.  So it is staying around for long rides, but I suspect the Zero's will be getting 90% of the ride time ultimately as long trips are far and between for me.

[valnar]

Jarrett that is all good info.  Thank you.

I calculated some more math today and that was the number of 'nice' days I have here in Cleveland between late April and early October.
http://www.cleveland.climatemps.com/precipitation.php

Even if I rode on every non-rainy day, I'm looking at about 25% of the year.  So while that holds true whether the bike is ICE or electric, it does factor into the overall operating costs.  'Lots to think about!

[Jarrett]

Something else to consider is just the difference between riding an ICE bike and a Zero.  Yesterday, I spent a couple of hours riding my FX, then came home and jumped on my VFR1200X DCT.

Immediately, when cranking the VFR, I notice that compared to the Zero that it's noisy, its shaking, its generating heat and smells.  The bike needs to warm up, so you crank it and let it sit rumbling in your garage for a bit.  If I accidentally leave the garage door open too long, now my house smells like motorcycle exhaust.  Not to mention, anyone that is home has to hear it and smell it too.  Heaving the bike up takes more strength just to move it around.  Then I clunk it into first gear and bike heaves and I take off and I can immediately feel a loss of agility.  The bike is big and slow to change directions.  It's noisy and every time it shifts, there is an audible and tactile clunking noise. 

Leaning it into a turn takes more effort, stopping it at a stop sign takes more focus and strength.  The throttle to acceleration time/feeling is much less smooth and has a bit of torquey jerkiness to it.  The throttle is considerably more snatchy feeling and power is not linear unless you time the shifts just right, even then it takes time to spool into the powerband. 

Then comes the heat.  After a few miles, the engine gets warm, the exhaust gets warm.  If its cold out this isn't much of an issue, but at 85+ degrees, you start feeling it.  Heat coming from the seat like a seat warmer, hot air blowing up from engine and heating your body.  Heat from the exhaust making your legs uncomfortably warm, even through Kevlar lined jeans.  The bigger/more powerful the engine, the more heat coming your way.

Then there are the vibrations and they are constant.  They don't seem like much but after a longer time on the bike, they start to take a toll on your body a bit.  Then you stop your ICE bike and turn it off and its still throwing heat, making cooling sounds and emitting smells.  You can't help but wonder, is that smell a normal part of the operation of the bike or is it a symptom of an issue cropping up.

On the other hand, none of that is part of the experience of riding an electric bike.  I find the lack of these side effects while riding a Zero to be a positive and part of what I pay for when I buy one.  If all of my rides could be covered by a Zero, that's the only bike I would be riding these days. 

[valnar]

Thank you Jarrett.  You would be good for their marketing!  I'm sold.

[Jarrett]

It really comes down to what you need from the bike.  An ICE bike is pretty versatile and can cover a lot of different ground.  Zero's are much more application specific.  You really need to know what you are going to use it for and then buy the model that does that specifically.  It's also possible that they don't make a model that does what you need it to do, like touring, track days/racing or hard core MX riding.  But just for general around town riding, I really like what Zero brings to the table.