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[zugvogel]

I just posted this in the Energica section but I figured this might be interesting here as well:

I have an interesting problem.... I have a Zero SR/F on order but my local Energica dealer also has a new 2017 Eva in stock, at the 2018 MSRP of 18K.
My worry would be that the battery is now 2 1/2 years old and has likely just been sitting on low charge. Is it possible to check the state of the battery and is my worry justified?

I test drove both bikes and I like the "lightness" of the SR/F compared to the top-heavy Eva. In terms of power I don't think there is much difference and unlike what I expected I think the SR/F goes a bit faster of the line since the Eva (2017=80kW) seems to have a very soft throttle coming of a stand-still. Which makes sense if you factor in the 100lbs less on the Zero. But my point being - the power difference does not feed into my decision making as it is too close to call. However the test rides are 4 weeks apart now so my memory might trick me here.

What the SR/F has going for it is probably a longer range, especially with the extra battery that I was planning to add when it comes out in fall. The Eva of course has DC charging which is plenty available around here.

The Eva was also very stiffly set up, but I assume the fully adjustable suspension can take care of that.

I do like the SR/F's look better - less is more and I think they hit the nail on the head with avoiding complexity; i.e. the Eva with liquid cooling, reduction gearbox etc just seems to have a lot more complexity to it - visually as well as technically... does it matter? not sure

What would you do?

[flattetyre]

Unless you want to get a Energica for collection's sake the SR/F has a lot of points going for it. It is (hopefully) the simpler bike to own, drivetrain simplicity is in favor of the Zero with little advantage to the Eva...are you planning to overheat the motor? Won't be easy unless you race around or sustain very fast cruise. And of course in that situation you have very little range on either bike anyway, and the Eva's battery will probably also overheat under those conditions.

The SR/F is also newer and at worst has a much newer battery, so that's always good. To actually check the battery on the Eva you would need to do a full charge / discharge cycle (preferably more than one) and see if the capacity is there and if there are any balance issues at the bottom of the pack.

[MVetter]

What? Both the Eva's motor and battery run significantly cooler than Zero's. It's pretty damn hard to overheat an Energica battery.

[NEW2elec]

Look at the battery warranty of both.  The Zero is Li-ion and the Eva is Lipo.  You can make that call.
For most people I would say how close is your dealer for the Energica, but you sound close enough.
Do you have a lot of DC charging on your planed routes?  Having DC charging won't help if it's not where you ride.

I think the Eva is a high quality bike from what others have said but the power tank option of the SRF alone would give it the nod if like myself the idea of charging while on a ride isn't appealing.

I would low ball the Eva to 15-16k and you need to check on their warranty rules.  Zero starts the warranty clock when they ship to the dealer not when you buy the bike so a "new" 2016 Zero would have no full coverage warranty.  I don't know what Energica's rules are.

Either way it's sounds like you'll have a very nice bike in the near future.   

[alko]

Look at the battery warranty of both.  The Zero is Li-ion and the Eva is Lipo.  You can make that call.
For most people I would say how close is your dealer for the Energica, but you sound close enough.
Do you have a lot of DC charging on your planed routes?  Having DC charging won't help if it's not where you ride.

I think the Eva is a high quality bike from what others have said but the power tank option of the SRF alone would give it the nod if like myself the idea of charging while on a ride isn't appealing.

I would low ball the Eva to 15-16k and you need to check on their warranty rules.  Zero starts the warranty clock when they ship to the dealer not when you buy the bike so a "new" 2016 Zero would have no full coverage warranty.  I don't know what Energica's rules are.

Either way it's sounds like you'll have a very nice bike in the near future.   

The Energica battery warranty states the following.

The duration of the battery limited warranty is 3 years (36 months) or 50,000 km (31,000 mi), starting from the date of the initial, and from the consequent date recorded within this warranty card, whichever comes first (time or distance).

So whatever that means. So if you buy a new ZERO that sat at a dealer for 2 years, it will still have 3 years left on the battery.

The full 2 year warranty on the Zero starts when delivered to customer or 3 years after dealer receives it from Zero. Whichever is shorter.

[NEW2elec]

If you order a new bike from Zero you get the full coverage 2 year warranty.   But any bike on the floor is a demo.  Which deals with the "shipment date".   So this applies : (copied from Zero's webpage under owners section)


( B. What is the Coverage Period for Demonstrators?

The duration of this Limited Warranty for demonstrator 2020 Zero Motorcycles, not including the Power Packs, is a period of two (2) years and 90 days from the original “shipment date.”

Note: The “shipment date” is the date that Zero ships the demonstrator 2020 Zero Motorcycle to the authorized dealer.

The duration of this Limited Warranty for the Power Packs (not including the Power Pack’s outer case) is:

    Five (5) years and 90 days from the “shipment date” for the Z-Force® ZF14.4 Power Packs on the 2020 Zero SR/F Motorcycle.
    Five (5) years and 90 days from the “shipment date” of the host 2020 Zero SR/F Motorcycle for the Z-Force® Power Tank accessory. If purchased after the host Power Pack warranty has expired, the Power Tank will receive the standard parts warranty of one (1) year from date of purchase.

The Power Pack’s outer case is not covered under the Power Pack Limited Warranty duration terms above. Instead, the Power Pack’s outer case is covered for a period of two (2) years and 90 days from its “shipment date.”   )


Not a big deal for a newer one but there are some new old stock bikes out there that will only have a short if any 2 year full coverage warranty.  Plenty of battery warranty left but the charger and other parts are on you.

The 3 year 31,000 mile Energica coverage vs the 5 year unlimited mileage Zero warranty speaks to Lipo vs Li-ion and which one might be the better battery type.

[zugvogel]

Thank you all for chiming in, those are all good points... as of this moment I am still on the fence... let’s face it, this will be my first electric bike, not the last so either way I will make the right call for the moment in time :-)
I’ll see what deal I can get on the Eva and if that will be enough to cope with the heaviness and battery situation I‘ll go for it. Those are really the min points. If you are a zero owner and never rode an Energica, try it - the real and perceived weight difference is significant.

I have good dealers for both brands close by, so that’s not an issue.
I’ll keep y’all posted.

[George Cowly]

Keep in mind the charging figures. Enerigica is super cool when you can charge via CCS but if you have to stick to AC charging, then there is only 3kW available. When you have plenty of DC charging stations thats a minor issue but if you plan a trip through the mountains (of Switzerland and Austria for excample), you'll find loads of AC stations but hardly any CCS. Hence I have ordered a SR/F premium with the additional 6kW.

[MostlyBonkers]

.  Zero starts the warranty clock when they ship to the dealer not when you buy the bike so a "new" 2016 Zero would have no full coverage warranty.  I don't know what Energica's rules are.

Either way it's sounds like you'll have a very nice bike in the near future.   

Incorrect, at least in the UK. I bought my 2014DS in January 2016, which is when it was registered.  Registration date should trigger the start of the warranty period. To prove the point, the BMS was replaced on my bike last Autumn.  The warranty was extended to 3 years as a gesture of goodwill after a few warranty claims rendered my bike off-road for a few months.

If a dealer receives a bike and immediately registers it so it can be used as a demonstrator, then naturally the warranty starts from then.

That's my understanding and experience of it, at least. It would seem very unfair to do otherwise. Maybe different rules apply in different jurisdictions?

[MostlyBonkers]

I've also been wondering about getting an Energica. There's only one dealer here in the UK though and it's in the middle of nowhere!

Whilst I wish Zero had gone high voltage and implemented CCS by now, a charge tank will provide twice the charging rate of an Eva at a single phase 7kW post, which are the most prolific. Just bear in mind that a premium SRF will only charge at 3.3kW from a 7kW post though. That's because the onboard chargers are only 3.3kW each and are on separate phases.  Once the charge tank is available for the SRF, it will be possible to charge at 6.6kW from a 7kW post, providing the connections for phase 1 and 3 are swapped at one end of the cable.  Therefore, there's an argument to save money and get the standard version now and spend the money later in the year on a charge tank.  That will give you the 6.6kW you desire from a 7kW post and 9.9kW when you can use a three phase AC post.

For me it's the Zero. I like the elegance of their design and they are far more established. No doubt the SRF handles much better, the battery should last much longer and you won't get that annoying loud whine that the Energicas create.

[zugvogel]

On the charging... I am in the US (Los Angeles) where charging options are everywhere. What I am not sure of is this:
On a J charger here I should pretty much always get 6.6kW on a premium SR/F but only 3kW on the Eva.
If I were to add the charge tank to the zero, I can get 12kW, but only if I plug it into a second charger?!? The Chargers don’t go above 6.6 so how can I take advantage of the 12kW?

Now on the Eva, I just find myself one of the many CCS chargers around here and be happy, right? But... they are expensive round here, just sayin’...

[BigPoppa]

The lack of widespread 12kw level 2 chargers in my area (US NorCal) made the rapid charger kind of pointless for me. Also, even the 6+kw level 2 chargers may drop in half if it’s a shared charger and someone’s already using one of the charge cables.

Besides, I have more use for the power tank (longer range) when it’s released than faster charge times.

[MostlyBonkers]

On the charging... I am in the US (Los Angeles) where charging options are everywhere. What I am not sure of is this:
On a J charger here I should pretty much always get 6.6kW on a premium SR/F but only 3kW on the Eva.
If I were to add the charge tank to the zero, I can get 12kW, but only if I plug it into a second charger?!? The Chargers don’t go above 6.6 so how can I take advantage of the 12kW?

Now on the Eva, I just find myself one of the many CCS chargers around here and be happy, right? But... they are expensive round here, just sayin’...

The point I was trying to make above is that the premium SRF provides 6.6kW of charging capacity via two 3.3kW chargers.  Each charger is configured on different phases. A 7kW charging post is configured to only provide power on a single phase.  That means that only one of the 3.3kW on-board chargers can be provided with power.  Therefore the premium SRF will only charge at 3.3kW from a 7kW post.  In order to charge the premium SRF at 6.6kW you need to find a 3 phase charging post. Those are the 11kW posts and above.

I hope that makes sense.

Why Zero couldn't just supply a single 6.6kW on-board charger, I don't know.  There will be a lot of disappointed premium SRF customers with the current design. I have little faith in the dealerships educating prospective customers in this.

[alko]

Exactly why Zero should have included L3 charging. It would made life so simple. Instead of looking forward,  Zero decided to play catchup later on.

[gstrub]

Wait a minute here!

Are you saying the premium SRF will only charge at 3.3 even if I plug it into a charge port which delivers 7kW? I don’t think that is correct, that review video with the British guy shows him charging on a 7kW port and the estimated time from empty to full was around 2 hours, which isn’t 3.3.

Someone clarify this please:)