Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[DonTom]

GaryArt1, yeah way back when I was faced with cruel reality that you can't pull more than about 1.3kws from a house outlet even though they offer a 3kw charger with the bike.

How did you come up with that? Most home 120 VAC outlets are good for 20 amps (2,400 watts). If you wanna use the 20% safety factor and only pull 16 amps, 1.920 watts.

Our bikes draw around 13 amps (1,560 watts) at 120 VAC. Half that current (6.5 amps) at 240 VAC.

You can always add 240 VAC to a house. I added 60 amps @ 240 VAC here for my Tesla.  That is 14,400 watts max, 11,520 at 48 amps when the 20% safety is included.

I use this Tesla outlet with a J1172 adapter on two Zero Quick Chargers and the bike's internal charger (at the same time) so I do not have to run any extension cords.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

Well first your right that things can be modified (within limits) to whatever you want.  Your Tesla setup sounds very nice.
I'll freely admit I wrongly remembered my outlet breakers as 15 amps and your right they're 20 amps when I looked.
My garage voltage by my meter shows 112Vs so it's a bit low.

But I was going off the old Quiq chargers instructions to plug into another circuit than the onboard charger to keep from tripping the breaker.

My app claims both pull a total of 24 amps form time to time.

[DonTom]

Well first your right that things can be modified (within limits) to whatever you want.  Your Tesla setup sounds very nice. I'll freely admit I wrongly remembered my outlet breakers as 15 amps and your right they're 20 amps when I looked.
My garage voltage by my meter shows 112Vs so it's a bit low.

But I was going off the old Quiq chargers instructions to plug into another circuit than the onboard charger to keep from tripping the breaker.

My app claims both pull a total of 24 amps form time to time.

Sometimes lights are on 15 amp circuit breakers but home outlets are generally on 20 amp breakers (@120 VAC). My Tesla  "Wall Connector"  is on a couple of 60 amp breakers (240 VAC) which means 14,400 watts max. (or 11,520 watts with the 20% safety factor).

112VAC sounds too low, especially if unloaded. I would check on another AC voltmeter and compare to your other outlets. Here, I measure 118.7 VAC (unloaded).

Yes, two Zero chargers at 120 VAC is a 26 amp load at max--should trip any 20 amp CB on a 120 VAC outlet. But on 240 VAC, they draw half that current and then three chargers should be okay from a single 240 VAC outlet. Or from a single J-1772 station on the road. When I take my SR (with Pwr Tank) on a long trip, I take two quick chargers with me and the cables to run  all three chargers (bike included) from a single J-1772 station.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Richard230]

At my home I see 121 volts, unloaded.  118 volts with the on-board Zero charger plugged in.

[TireFryer426]

I thought i read in the facebook group that someone asked about L3 charging during one of the release events and Zero's response was that they kept the door open for a possible add on later if L3 charging became more prevalent.  It didn't sound like a full retool at all.

But I don't know the ins and outs or what would make it not possible.  Just something I thought I saw mentioned.

Zero's going to have to do a nearly complete redesign of their drivetrain to support level 3 charging. Not only is their battery pack voltage too low (I understand their reasoning for using a low battery voltage, but the industry has gone the other way), but they didn't design the battery pack for adequate cooling in the 1C++ range, and the cell they selected isn't rated for it anyhow.

These aren't things that will be solved by any amount of incremental improvement. It's a major redesign. I think Zero would be well-advised to do it sooner rather than later. L3 charging may not be critical today, but it's not going to be long before they won't be able to sell an electric vehicle without it.

[DonTom]

At my home I see 121 volts, unloaded.  118 volts with the on-board Zero charger plugged in.

That was what I had when I lived in San Mateo County. Just a little lower here in Reno for whatever reason, but I have never seen it anywhere I lived where it was as low as 112 VAC (unloaded).

-Don-  Reno, NV

[Doug S]

...Zero's response was that they kept the door open for a possible add on later if L3 charging became more prevalent.  It didn't sound like a full retool at all.

Well, what are they supposed to say when someone asks? I stand by my original comment. I strongly suspect it's going to have to happen sooner or later, and it's not going to go easy.

[Bill822]

The "hours to charge" thing can lead people to make wrong assumptions. Waiting for my SR/F but I've driven EVs for a few years now. Charge times are for 0-100%. You'll never do that on the road, not voluntarily. The rule is ABC, Always Be Charging. Stop for a quick break? Plug in. Just grab enough charge to feel comfortable. Plug in every chance you get.

Plan your route. Use Plugshare to find chargers. Avoid freeways. Avoid fast acceleration and speeds over the limit if you need to get maximum range. ECO mode won't save you from a heavy hand. Fast acceleration and aerodynamic drag are the biggest power eaters. Keep your tires fully inflated.

Learn how to use regen. That means go into regen only when you intend to slow down. In EV cars and I hear also on Zeros you can activate regen by simply applying enough brake to turn the brake lights on.

So, just save up enough juice that you have left over power to burn when you get to the fun part of the road.

And L3? Unless Zero changed the battery totally it ain't happening on this bike. Zero batteries run at about 100V and the Level 3 charging standards only go down to 200V.

[MVetter]

stuff

I might just copy and paste your thing elsewhere because this is literally the same thing I say over and over in different places when this comes up. I agree with everything you have written here.

[Bill822]

I left out:
Every time your brake pads touch the rotors you are throwing away capacity. Look ahead and plan. Use regen for most of your slowing when approaching a stop.

I don't know how strong or configurable regen is on the SR/F. I see there are adjustments that can be made through the app. Will probably add a seperate regen lever wired to brake lights. I'm sure I will try hypermiling the SR/F just for the challenge though it will be hard with all that TORQUE on tap. I can regularly get over 70 miles from my "53 mile" Volt.

[zugvogel]

I am 100% with you on the regen, on our e-Golf I always drive in full regen mode and avoid using the brakes as much as possible. However, if I do hit the brakes the regen gauge increases so not only friction brakes are used but the "regenerator" as well.

So this brings up a question that I have not really seen an answer for yet: on the SR/F (or any Zero for that matter) - does pulling the brake lever go 100% to the friction brakes OR does it also create regenerative charging?

[DonTom]

I am 100% with you on the regen, on our e-Golf I always drive in full regen mode and avoid using the brakes as much as possible. However, if I do hit the brakes the regen gauge increases so not only friction brakes are used but the "regenerator" as well.

So this brings up a question that I have not really seen an answer for yet: on the SR/F (or any Zero for that matter) - does pulling the brake lever go 100% to the friction brakes OR does it also create regenerative charging?

AFAIK, the brake light activates the regen regardless of anything else. But the brake light switch should be set so regen is activated before  the brake pads make contact to the disk. So just enough braking for the brake light should be regen only, making adding a regen switch unnecessary.

-Don-  Reno, NV

[NEW2elec]

DonTom the 112V reading was from my old Kill A Watt while charging so yes under load.  I put my multi meter on it and got the same 118V so it's good.

There are separate regen options for throttle off and braking regen so the default is 100% braking regen but could be lowered for some unknown reason.

I still hope thy change the charge tank option to include 2 J1772 inlets.  I know they said no but I feel that will disappoint people who don't have the faster single charge stations but could double plug and get what they want.

[chrisho]

Would love a confirmation that Zero has blended braking, the term applied when the brakes first engage regeneration before the pads even move.
 
Blended braking is probably the only feature I miss from my Volt that is not on my TM3

[Richard230]

Would love a confirmation that Zero has blended braking, the term applied when the brakes first engage regeneration before the pads even move.
 
Blended braking is probably the only feature I miss from my Volt that is not on my TM3

I had both my 2014 S and my 2018 S set up with a custom program that has no regen with the throttle closed and maximum regen with the front brake lightly applied. As near as I can tell, the regen and brake light are activated without causing any braking if the lever is just touched lightly.  Also, maximum regen seems to be stronger when it is set to 100% in the custom program than when braking in the factory's "eco" mode setting.