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[chrisho]

So do we know if their range numbers are with the bike in Eco more or Standard mode? 
 
As for country roads, what speeds do you put those down as ?  In my are they are mostly 45/55 which means many do 55/70 on them. My route isn't fifty miles, its near eighty with another near one hundred or so, and to be honest a 21k motorcycle should be able to do more than that easily without worry about the charge. I may be able to reroute if I can find appropriate chargers and would only go with the Premium for the 6kWh charger. I kept passing on Zero motorcycles for range/cost/style and to be honest depending on reviews I may need to keep doing that. The SR/F is the first one with style to pique my interest but we are still dealing with Leaf style battery and engine systems. Plus another question, in the few reviews I have watched there is a lot of drive train noise and it doesn't sound like the belt. Are they that noisy or is that on purpose ?

[Ermahgerd]

As for realistic values you will probably have to wait for the first customer bikes or ask a dealer that tested that in one go. Best thing would be to do a test drive and pick the commuting route. The pre-production and probably the early firmwares are most likely not as efficient as later versions, so most likely there's less range. But considering it has the same battery as the SR 14.4 but is heavier and has more power, i would aim for something just below the SR range in similar conditions. Range claims on the homepage are also slightly under the claims for the SR 14.4. So theoretically it should be possible but will depend a lot on speed and riding style.
If you want to rely on it under every condition you should probably look for something else or consider the charge tank upgrade.
The louder belt noise should be normal since it is a wider belt (20mm). Also you have a bigger and stronger motor and bigger tires, there's also noise coming from those...

[Jarrett]

  I guess the ultimate test would be to take an SRF to a track and see how many miles to empty. 30 maybe?  I'd be very surprised if an SRF will do more than 50 miles per charge when used on the road to its full potential.

Last Monday, I went to a track day and the SR/F was there.  I didn't keep track of how many times it was out there on the track, but the owner said maybe 4 sessions which were 30 minutes long.  I know of at least 2 people that rode it, maybe more.  Not sure if they did the whole sessions or not.  I just can't imagine the SR/F could do 4 full 30 minute sessions on a charge though.

When I went to demo the bike earlier this week, I showed up and it had 44% charge.  The dealer said they had not charged it since the track day.  So, if that is accurate then however many times it went around the track that day, it burned 56% off.

I did hear them say that one of the racer instructors was on it last (and he was blowing past everyone apparently) and it dropped in power on him during the ride.  He brought it back in at that point.  That's when people lost interest in riding it at the track day, because they knew it was no longer giving all the goods so no one wanted to ride it again.  I guess under 50%, it doesn't give you full power anymore.  I find that to be similar to my FX as well.

I could imagine the SR/F being a fun bike for a track day IF there was L2 charging available there, which there is not at this track, at this time.  If it were, you could start at 100%, go run it like a mad man, come in and let it charge under it was your turn again, etc.  Until they get the whole 12Kw L2 charging thing more readily available, that might be tough to come by though.

[alko]

  I guess the ultimate test would be to take an SRF to a track and see how many miles to empty. 30 maybe?  I'd be very surprised if an SRF will do more than 50 miles per charge when used on the road to its full potential.

Last Monday, I went to a track day and the SR/F was there.  I didn't keep track of how many times it was out there on the track, but the owner said maybe 4 sessions which were 30 minutes long.  I know of at least 2 people that rode it, maybe more.  Not sure if they did the whole sessions or not.  I just can't imagine the SR/F could do 4 full 30 minute sessions on a charge though.

When I went to demo the bike earlier this week, I showed up and it had 44% charge.  The dealer said they had not charged it since the track day.  So, if that is accurate then however many times it went around the track that day, it burned 56% off.

I did hear them say that one of the racer instructors was on it last (and he was blowing past everyone apparently) and it dropped in power on him during the ride.  He brought it back in at that point.  That's when people lost interest in riding it at the track day, because they knew it was no longer giving all the goods so no one wanted to ride it again.  I guess under 50%, it doesn't give you full power anymore.  I find that to be similar to my FX as well.

I could imagine the SR/F being a fun bike for a track day IF there was L2 charging available there, which there is not at this track, at this time.  If it were, you could start at 100%, go run it like a mad man, come in and let it charge under it was your turn again, etc.  Until they get the whole 12Kw L2 charging thing more readily available, that might be tough to come by though.

My dsr doesn't lose power till it's gets down to about 15%, than I can only get up to 70mph.

[Richard230]

I have tried comparing sport, eco and my coasting custom programming while riding my two S models during the past 5 years over the same route and at the same speeds.  I have noticed virtually no difference in range while my bike was in any of the different programs. Your throttle hand is the only thing you need to provide the maximum range, not the bike's programming that adjusts top speed, regen and throttle progression.

However, I will comment that on my rides, my experience has been that using a custom program with no regen with the throttle closed and maximum regen when braking, gives the best range - maybe by about 2 or 3%, compared with "eco" or "sport".

[Jarrett]

I have tried comparing sport, eco and my coasting custom programming while riding my two S models during the past 5 years over the same route and at the same speeds.  I have noticed virtually no difference in range while my bike was in any of the different programs. Your throttle hand is the only thing you need to provide the maximum range, not the bike's programming that adjusts top speed, regen and throttle progression.

I've noticed the same in my first 1,000 miles with my FX.  It doesn't really matter what mode I'm, just how much throttle I'm using.  Which is pretty much all of it, all the time unless I have a mileage target I'm trying to hit.  So I ride in Sport mode on pavement and Eco or Custom mode off pavement.

I'm sure if you gently rode the SR/F around at 31 mph, it would go a long way too, but who wants to do that?

I REALLY wish the DSR had traction control as I think I might enjoy a DSR with a Power Tank.  Looks like it will go about 118 miles on a charge, which is about double what my FX will do.  But they are still $19,000.  But it's hard to find a (comfortable) bike with over 100 ft-lbs. of torque going for much less really.  I just suspect that the sudden torque of the R models without traction control might bite me one day when I lost focus for a second.  I do like to power out of corners and that seems like a dangerous option on the DSR.

Although, I've spent time on a SR/F with no traction control and didn't go down.  Maybe I'm overthinking it.

[GaryArt1]

The old app works easily with my FX.  When I went to demo the FX, it connected right up to the demo bike and worked fine.  At home, it connects every time I try it with my FX.

I did not have that experience with the SR/F.  The new app did not play well with the SR/F demo bike.  Like with the FX previously, I downloaded the next gen app and RTFM before I went up there and was prepared to connect it all up, tried three times powering everything on and off, and no dice.  That was a bit of a bummer as I was hoping to use the ride tracking portion of the app, but no luck.

So I noticed the new app was updated yesterday at least on Android.  They list its a fix for bugs and performance issues.  Hopefully they have ironed out a lot of the issues you were having.  I guess this is one good thing comes from the delivery delay.  With more demos out there they are testing the bike in real world usage and hopefully fixing issues before they ship to customers.  i still expect small issues with the bike. I don't mind if they are software related and don;t really effect rideability.   This can always be updated by an OTA firmware.  Hardware issues where you have to bring back to the dealer and wait months to get them fixed will be a killer for the new bike.

[MVetter]

Jarrett, I am curious to know whether or not you've had a chance to ride any of the Energica bikes and, if so, how they compared to your brief SR/F experience.

[alko]

Quote

I REALLY wish the DSR had traction control as I think I might enjoy a DSR with a Power Tank.  Looks like it will go about 118 miles on a charge, which is about double what my FX will do.  But they are still $19,000.  But it's hard to find a (comfortable) bike with over 100 ft-lbs. of torque going for much less really.  I just suspect that the sudden torque of the R models without traction control might bite me one day when I lost focus for a second.  I do like to power out of corners and that seems like a dangerous option on the DSR.
Quote

The dsr doesn't need a power tank to do 118 miles city. I consistently get 130 miles doing averaging 35-40mph. I've never ridden a bike with traction control either so I don't need it. Maybe when I was young and stupid, traction control would have prevented a few wreck, but I've learned and don't feel I need it.

[GaryArt1]

Quote

I've never ridden a bike with traction control either so I don't need it. Maybe when I was young and stupid, traction control would have prevented a few wreck, but I've learned and don't feel I need it.

I hear this type of thinking a lot.  Whenever you discuss a type of safety feature, there is someone that doesn't "need it".  Whether it is ABS, traction control or motorcycle helmets, there is always someone who doesn't need them.  I guess we all don't really "need them".  If I was the only one on the road and it was just me and the asphalt, I would not need any of this.  The way I look at it, as a motorcycle rider I have a whole road full of people out to kill me, intentionally or not.  I will take any advantages I can to make sure I live to ride another day.  So we may not normally need any of these safety features but the day the little old lady takes a left crossing in front of us and our tires find the loose gravel in the road, I will be glad to have them all.

Now this is of course taking about street riding which the SR/F is geared toward.  Off road riding, I can see where traction control and abs maybe more a detriment than help.

[heroto]

Regarding mode and range, my experience matches Richard’s and others: mode don’t matter. And I’ll add that the regen coasting does almost nothing and regen braking very little in terms of range. I’ve coasted downhill on 15% grades that last 3 miles and not significantly changed SOC, maybe 1/2 percent or less on a 7.2 S.

[Neuer_User]

My dsr doesn't lose power till it's gets down to about 15%, than I can only get up to 70mph.

My SR starts limiting power at about 60% SOC. It may not be noticable for you, but I am sure yours does, too.
Have a look at the MBB logs:

• at 58% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    671 A (97%), MinCell: 3642mV, MaxPackTemp: 22C"
  
• at 55% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    611 A (92%), MinCell: 3597mV, MaxPackTemp: 23C"
  
• at 50% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    577 A (88%), MinCell: 3611mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C"
  
• at 45% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    529 A (80%), MinCell: 3571mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C"
  
• at 30% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    476 A (68%), MinCell: 3518mV, MaxPackTemp: 27C"
  
• at 20% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    469 A (67%), MinCell: 3548mV, MaxPackTemp: 28C"
  
• at 10% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    373 A (54%), MinCell: 3464mV, MaxPackTemp: 41C"
  

You may not notice this, if you are not trying to use full power, but in general the bike is starting to reduce power from about 60% SOC, first only slightly, but in the end you only have about half the power you get when fully charged.

[alko]

My dsr doesn't lose power till it's gets down to about 15%, than I can only get up to 70mph.

My SR starts limiting power at about 60% SOC. It may not be noticable for you, but I am sure yours does, too.
Have a look at the MBB logs:

• at 58% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    671 A (97%), MinCell: 3642mV, MaxPackTemp: 22C"
  
• at 55% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    611 A (92%), MinCell: 3597mV, MaxPackTemp: 23C"
  
• at 50% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    577 A (88%), MinCell: 3611mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C"
  
• at 45% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    529 A (80%), MinCell: 3571mV, MaxPackTemp: 25C"
  
• at 30% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    476 A (68%), MinCell: 3518mV, MaxPackTemp: 27C"
  
• at 20% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    469 A (67%), MinCell: 3548mV, MaxPackTemp: 28C"
  
• at 10% SOC: "Batt Dischg Cur Limited    373 A (54%), MinCell: 3464mV, MaxPackTemp: 41C"
  

You may not notice this, if you are not trying to use full power, but in general the bike is starting to reduce power from about 60% SOC, first only slightly, but in the end you only have about half the power you get when fully charged.

Yeah, you're probably right. I do 99% city i just dont notice it much. Don't need to give it full throttle often.

[Jarrett]

Jarrett, I am curious to know whether or not you've had a chance to ride any of the Energica bikes and, if so, how they compared to your brief SR/F experience.

I totally missed this.  I haven't ridden an Energica bike.  I thought about jumping on an Esse Esse 9 (I think that's the name) while I was demoing a DSR, but I passed on it after I heard it had a smaller battery than the DSR and less range.  I didn't want to fall in love with the torque and then justify the little range to myself.  Seems like a really cool bike though.

[MVetter]

I totally missed this.  I haven't ridden an Energica bike.  I thought about jumping on an Esse Esse 9 (I think that's the name) while I was demoing a DSR, but I passed on it after I heard it had a smaller battery than the DSR and less range.  I didn't want to fall in love with the torque and then justify the little range to myself.  Seems like a really cool bike though.

They're similar battery capacities, actually. Zero's marketing number is 14.4kWh which turns into 11.62kWh nominal. Energica's nominal listing is 11.7kWh.