Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[NEW2elec]

I am still trying to wrap my brain around Lightning's claim that adding 10 kWh of additional batteries to their Standard Strike model to create the Carbon version only adds an additional 30 pounds of weight.  I really don't think that making the fairing out of carbon fiber rather than plastic is going to help all that much in the weight difference, especially when you add in the DC fast charging equipment on the Carbon bike. 

I know, and there is so much more "stranger things" with the specs.  For $7k more you get a 6.6kw level 2 charger not the standard 3.3.  You get DC level 3 charging to fill 100+ miles of range in 20 mins.  You get full Ohlins suspension and 120hp not the 90hp for the standard. Oh and twice the battery over the $13k standard bike.

Who would ever buy the standard bike at that level of difference?
The Carbon Strike is by far the greatest deal in the market, nothing else even comes close.
Unless...

[wavelet]

^^ People have speculated on this on several threads in this forum, as well as most other reasonably knowledgeable EV blogs that have any interest in motorcycles (almost none of them, unfortunately).
Noone that I've seen has come up with a reasonable explanation that's charitable to Lightning.
What I find more worrisome is that it's nearly 3 months after the PR that "launched" the bike (after several teasers); there still absolutely nothing on Lightning's site beyond that original PR.
In fact, unless you know that they're intending to launch the Strike and actively look for it there, the clear impression is that they only have the LS-218. There's no product page, let alone detailed specs. The PR hasn't even been updated for initial delivery dates: It still says July, although people have been reporting here and elsewhere they've been told August.
With no reported sightings of multiple prototypes, it's getting difficult to believe they're ready for homologation. It's not a trivial process.

[NEW2elec]

Just for fun I went to the Energica page and configured an Ego.  I gave it the carbon fiber panel option and the Ohilns suspension.
That takes you to about $27k.  That is with 3.3kw AC charging (both have DC) and a nominal battery capacity of 11.7kWhs.
Both the Carbon Strike and the Ego claim a 150MPH top speed with the Ego claiming 145hp and the Strike claiming 120hp.

Now Energica is in a very high rent district of Italy and Lightning is coming from China but even with that difference it's hard to explain the price to specs difference.
 

[caza]

I find it really strange that there's nothing on Lightnings website, the only mention at all is the reservation in the shop, which is entirely different than the LS-218 reservation on the main site.

As for the strike itself, if the 20kw bike actually gets you 150 miles on the highway (70mph+) for 20k, it's giving better value than Zero, energica, or Harley for the price.

My highway commute ranges from 30-55 miles each way. When it's 55, I have to charge my Zero at work. With 150 miles of highway range I would never have to worry about getting a charging spot or finding an outlet, there's a lot of value there for me.

But I would never take the plunge until I know they're already viable and I can get the damn thing serviced.

[BigPoppa]

My highway commute ranges from 30-55 miles each way. When it's 55, I have to charge my Zero at work. With 150 miles of highway range I would never have to worry about getting a charging spot or finding an outlet, there's a lot of value there for me.

But I would never take the plunge until I know they're already viable and I can get the damn thing serviced.

I’m in a similar situation. 38 mile highway commute each way (32 miles mix of city and highway). I’ve been looking at a lot of the EVs over the past couple of years and while the Zeros had the range I wanted, it wasn’t until the SR/F came out that I could get the range, level 2 charger (my job has a crap ton of level 2 chargers), and bike size I would feel comfortable commuting on.

Although the Strike Carbon specs would make it ideal, the fact that I can’t go through a dealer for purchase/support and would have to drop a $10k deposit on the bike sight unseen with no test ride made me feel very uncomfortable.

The “zero” maintenance of the Zero as a daily commuter heavily swung me towards it instead of the Energica despite the lack of a level 3 charger. I get lazier as I get older although no less obsessive over my bikes and even the relatively minor effort of regular chain maintenance is too much (my ICE bike has shaft drive and I have the dealer perform all scheduled services).

Given the larger dealer network and much better factory warranty of the Zero vs Energica (and I’m assuming Lightning since I haven’t seen any warranty info on their site), for me, the Zero SR/F is the only logical choice for an EV bike this year.

[Richard230]

The only complaint that I have about the Energica bikes is that they are just too heavy for my taste and ability to push into and around my garage.

Regarding the Lightning Strike: I figure that if it sounds too good to be true, it probably is something to stay away from - especially as an early adopter.   

[wavelet]

I find it really strange that there's nothing on Lightnings website, the only mention at all is the reservation in the shop, which is entirely different than the LS-218 reservation on the main site.

As for the strike itself, if the 20kw bike actually gets you 150 miles on the highway (70mph+) for 20k, it's giving better value than Zero, energica, or Harley for the price.

My highway commute ranges from 30-55 miles each way. When it's 55, I have to charge my Zero at work. With 150 miles of highway range I would never have to worry about getting a charging spot or finding an outlet, there's a lot of value there for me.

Not just for you (-:
Lots of ICE bikes don't have 150mi (240km) highway range... My half-faired Bandit 1200S would hit its 5-liter reserve at 180km / 113mi at highway speeds --  I never stretched it beyond 200km for refueling, and I did 10 years of intensive sports-touring on it. It was still a bit annoyingly short on range.
My current Yam Tracer 900 is more like it: It does ~290-300km (a bit under 200mi) at 80-90 mph before the fuel warning blinks on,  which is reasonable.

Lots of people would be happy enough with a e-motorcycle you can do 120mi on between 20kW DC quick-charges, which take 35-40min, and AC L2 charging for topping off -- that's finally enough for actual day trips, not just commuting, and would make it relevant for people like me who have no use for an e-motorcycle otherwise.

[wavelet]

The only complaint that I have about the Energica bikes is that they are just too heavy for my taste and ability to push into and around my garage.

Ditto. I consider the max reasonable curb weight of a bike for 1-up sport-touring ~450lbs. I'll stretch it to 480 (what my current bike weighs) since I have to, but 600 is far too heavy, even with reverse gear.
The 20kWh Strike is claimed to be 485lbs / 220kg, with fairing, CCS and 6.6kW L2 charger. We shall see...

[ultrarnr]

Energica's have a reverse and also low speed forward setting. No big deal moving it around a garage. Like a lot of heavier bikes once up to speed the weight isn't as noticeable. I rode my Eva out to Deals Gap last July and it did quite well on the Dragon.

[mistasam]

Yeah I agree.  The Eva is heavy, but really easy to maneuver, and the power helps you forget that weight 

I can't speak for Lightning, but their lack of updates is probably because they're hitting production hard at the moment to make that "end of July / early August" deadline.  Richard asked me to decide on a paint color when I was there a few weeks ago, so I'm assuming they'll be delivering bikes very soon.

I can't buy one without riding it first, and unfortunately it'll be a few months before I can go back to the shop to test one out (living in New Zealand is such a pain sometimes!) but they have my deposit.

[wavelet]

Energica's have a reverse and also low speed forward setting. No big deal moving it around a garage. Like a lot of heavier bikes once up to speed the weight isn't as noticeable. I rode my Eva out to Deals Gap last July and it did quite well on the Dragon.

Yes, I do know about the reverse & slow fwd -- I'm more concerned over how easy & quickly a person could (1) move the bike and get it clear off a road in case of a total drivetrain malfunction, that is,walk it without the motor, including at slight inclines; (2) picking the bike up from a dropped state after a tip over / low speed accident.

[NEW2elec]

Energica's have a reverse and also low speed forward setting. No big deal moving it around a garage. Like a lot of heavier bikes once up to speed the weight isn't as noticeable. I rode my Eva out to Deals Gap last July and it did quite well on the Dragon.

Yes, I do know about the reverse & slow fwd -- I'm more concerned over how easy & quickly a person could (1) move the bike and get it clear off a road in case of a total drivetrain malfunction, that is,walk it without the motor, including at slight inclines; (2) picking the bike up from a dropped state after a tip over / low speed accident.

That is true on the pushing.  When I first got my Zero I was riding back and forth in my subdivision and I had to see how far it would go before dying and luckily when it did stop, I was about 30 yards from my driveway and I could feel that 400lbs going over the slight hill before I pulled in.
 I did see a good video on the best technique for lifting a heavy Harley that's fallen over.  A lady got up her 900lb bike so it works and a good thing to know just in case.  Women are smart enough to use their legs while men want to just power it up.

[wavelet]

Energica's have a reverse and also low speed forward setting. No big deal moving it around a garage. Like a lot of heavier bikes once up to speed the weight isn't as noticeable. I rode my Eva out to Deals Gap last July and it did quite well on the Dragon.

Yes, I do know about the reverse & slow fwd -- I'm more concerned over how easy & quickly a person could (1) move the bike and get it clear off a road in case of a total drivetrain malfunction, that is,walk it without the motor, including at slight inclines; (2) picking the bike up from a dropped state after a tip over / low speed accident.

That is true on the pushing.  When I first got my Zero I was riding back and forth in my subdivision and I had to see how far it would go before dying and luckily when it did stop, I was about 30 yards from my driveway and I could feel that 400lbs going over the slight hill before I pulled in.
 I did see a good video on the best technique for lifting a heavy Harley that's fallen over.  A lady got up her 900lb bike so it works and a good thing to know just in case.  Women are smart enough to use their legs while men want to just power it up.

Yes, I do know about the pickup techniques -- it's still far easier on lighter bikes, esp. if you're not on smooth asphalt and the bike's on rough ground.
We're getting a bit offtopic here, but incidentally, it's the case (or used to be) that to get a riding license in Japan, part of the test is  the prospective rider demonstrating s/he can pick up the bike they wanted a license for; I think that's not a bad idea.

[oobflyer]

I’m very interested in the ‘Strike’, but would like to see some owner videos/reviews, as well as test-ride it, of course. I haven’t put down a deposit, but might do so soon, just to get in line. If it turns out to be ‘too good to be true’ the deposit is refundable ;-)

[wavelet]

I’m very interested in the ‘Strike’, but would like to see some owner videos/reviews, as well as test-ride it, of course. I haven’t put down a deposit, but might do so soon, just to get in line. If it turns out to be ‘too good to be true’ the deposit is refundable ;-)

It's only as refundable as the financial health and goodwill of the company taking it.
Not casting any aspersions on Lightning in that regard, but they do warn that they don't put those deposits in any kind of escrow fund.

I don't know the law in California or wherever you live, but once they have the money, if they get in any kind of financial jam, without any bad intent, it may very well be that that employees, suppliers, debtors or the state/IRS are in front of you in terms of getting (part of) that money.

It's basically like giving a person a loan without collateral -- how well do you think you know him/her in order to be comfortable doing so?