Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Richard230]

Regarding the manufacturing in China, this is not necessarily something to be feared.  China will manufacture to your specifications, i.e., if you want total crap, they'll build that, and if you want high quality, they can build that too.  They can do both cheaper than we can in the US.  Many of the "manufactured in China" quality issues stem from buying products manufactured in China by Chinese companies competing solely on price, but they are completely capable of manufacturing high end quality items that you specify and inspect.

Remembering the Chinese-made engines in the BMW C650 Maxi-scooters whose porous castings required complete engine replacements by BMW.

Or the euthanasia drugs found in Chinese-prepared pet foods...

My daughter is the one and only customer service and complaint department for a company that buys a certain popular stainless steel product line made in China for the cheapest price they could get and no one performing QC.  She calls their products "crap".   

[Richard230]

Here is the old 2014 Jay Leno interview and review of the lightning LS-218: 

[GrantMeStrength]

[
My daughter is the one and only customer service and complaint department for a company that buys a certain popular stainless steel product line made in China for the cheapest price they could get and no one performing QC.  She calls their products "crap".   

* Product is cheapest available
* Product has no QC
* Product is crap

That could apply to a product made anywhere.

[David S]

The claimed leaked specs are very impressive to me, but it would still be a very hard sell to me over a zero. Lighting has no dealer network as i can tell in america, and no community of owners that i can find. Even i they produce this bike it would be really tough for me to take it over a brand that has established itself like zero with actual dealers.

[alko]

The claimed leaked specs are very impressive to me, but it would still be a very hard sell to me over a zero. Lighting has no dealer network as i can tell in america, and no community of owners that i can find. Even i they produce this bike it would be really tough for me to take it over a brand that has established itself like zero with actual dealers.

A big thing for me is the dc charging. I don't buy Zero reasoning for leaving off the sr/f. It's the future and harley, energica and Lightning all understand that.
Im looking forward to Thursday's launch date.

[David S]

The claimed leaked specs are very impressive to me, but it would still be a very hard sell to me over a zero. Lighting has no dealer network as i can tell in america, and no community of owners that i can find. Even i they produce this bike it would be really tough for me to take it over a brand that has established itself like zero with actual dealers.

A big thing for me is the dc charging. I don't buy Zero reasoning for leaving off the sr/f. It's the future and harley, energica and Lightning all understand that.
Im looking forward to Thursday's launch date.

Im in the opposite camp here which seems to be a minority view. I much prefer 6kw L2 charging over DC fast charging. I would very rarely use DC but would use L2 very frequently.

[JaimeC]

The claimed leaked specs are very impressive to me, but it would still be a very hard sell to me over a zero. Lighting has no dealer network as i can tell in america, and no community of owners that i can find. Even i they produce this bike it would be really tough for me to take it over a brand that has established itself like zero with actual dealers.

A big thing for me is the dc charging. I don't buy Zero reasoning for leaving off the sr/f. It's the future and harley, energica and Lightning all understand that.
Im looking forward to Thursday's launch date.

Im in the opposite camp here which seems to be a minority view. I much prefer 6kw L2 charging over DC fast charging. I would very rarely use DC but would use L2 very frequently.

My opinion:  There are far far more L2 charging stations than there are DC (L3) charging stations.  By the way, I think the Livewire is just about the STUPIDEST thing I've ever seen with L3 and L1 ONLY (you can use L2, but it won't charge any faster than L1).  If EVERY Harley dealership were to install L3 charging stations at their dealerships that may be useful, but right now it seems only a few of them will be.

By the time L3 becomes as widespread as L2 and practical enough to easily allow long trips, the L3-capable bike you bought today will be long past its battery life.  Buy the bike that utilizes what is available NOW.  Zero made the right choice.  It is nice of Lightning to give you the option, BUT it remains to be seen if L3 is available in the base-level version of the Strike, or if it will be an extra-cost option.  I'm still skeptical that EVERYTHING in that marketing release will be available in the base price version...

L3 also seems to be in its "Betamax vs. VHS" or "HDDVD vs Blu-Ray" phase right now.  I'd rather the dust settles and ONE standard rules them all.

[GaryArt1]

Jaime, I couldn’t agree with you more.  When I bring up a map of the L3 chargers in the area, it is few and far between but L2 is everywhere.  It may change in the future but who knows if by then there is not a even better standard.  If Zero went with L3 on the SR/F instead of L2, it would have been a big negative for me.  Being L2 is now a standard option on bike, it was one of the main reasons I went with the SR/F (that and traction control).  The way I look at it, I will not be pulling into a charger on 0% or going over 90% being it is 1/2 hour just to go from 90-100.  So the worse case I am looking is up to 2 hours of charging.  That is a long lunch, some sight seeing or some shoppping.  I can handle that.  For the most part I will be charging at home and the rides will not require another charge.  I have a level 2 charging station at home so I am good to go.  If it was level 1 and 3 only, then I wouldn’t .  I agree Jaime, what was Harley thinking.  I wonder if they will change that before it goes into production.  And I am very curious how much of the Lightning hype will be just that when they say what is included on the $12K standard edition.

So count me in as one of the people who is very glad Zero went with L2 charging. 

[Richard230]

After almost 10 years of riding electric motorcycles, I continue to be happy with L1, 120V, 12 amp, on-board charging.  With my Power Tank providing a 50-mile radius range, I can get pretty much everywhere I want to go that I used to visit with my car and recharge overnight.  For longer trips I use one of my ICE motorcycles. Plus, while there may be a relatively large number of L2 stations around, there is also an even larger number of electric cars coming on the market that want to hog the L2 stations.  Whereas, 120V wall outlets are everywhere and they don't require a subscription or an expense approaching that of gasoline to recharge a vehicle at a private L2 station that makes a profit for its operator.

[alko]

By July of this year, there will be about 500 Wal-Mart's with L3 chargers. All the Wal-Mart's within 100 miles from me already have them. Plus Harley will have L3 chargers at about 200 dealerships. It's coming a lot faster than y'all think. Get the Electrify America App to see which Wal-Mart's.

Btw Gary, you make it sound like a bike can only have L2 or L3, but that's not the case. The strike has all 3 levels.

[Richard230]

By July of this year, there will be about 500 Wal-Mart's with L3 chargers. All the Wal-Mart's within 100 miles from me already have them. Plus Harley will have L3 chargers at about 200 dealerships. It's coming a lot faster than y'all think. Get the Electrify America App to see which Wal-Mart's.

Btw Gary, you make it sound like a bike can only have L2 or L3, but that's not the case. The strike has all 3 levels.

Unfortunately, the SF Bay Area hates Walmarts because they are nonunion. There is only one Walmart anywhere near me and it is located 40 miles away.  Due to the layout of the store, I doubt they will be installing charging stations, but if they do, I am sure they will be ICE'ed as the store is very busy and their thrifty customers are not about to let a parking space go unoccupied.   

[flattetyre]

500 walmarts and some odd harley dealerships will have L3, OK.

Right now there are over 50K L2 stations in the USA. Zero knows this and they made the smart decision of making those stations usable for a bike that people want to ride in the real world starting basically now.

[JaimeC]

500 walmarts and some odd harley dealerships will have L3, OK.

Right now there are over 50K L2 stations in the USA. Zero knows this and they made the smart decision of making those stations usable for a bike that people want to ride in the real world starting basically now.

And that doesn't include the L2 stations people have installed in their own garages for the growing number of electric cars out there.

[BmoreThor]

The only reason I don't have a Zero in my garage right now is because the lack of DC fast charging.  It boggles my mind how Zero keeps ignoring the DCFC train. I thought the SR/F would be usher in a new battery design with a higher voltage with the hope that it would trickle down to the S / DS line.

If you had to pick either L2 or L3 then yes, its a no brainer that there are more L2 stations. But is that not the point of CCS? To have both. Sub-40min charge time would be a game changer.

[Alan Stewart]

Since I now own a 300-mile range EV, and it looks like the Alta ST will never be a reality,  this argument is no longer personally relevant, but I remember well my four years driving a 24 kWh Leaf. L3 charging that car was almost 8 times as fast as L2 charging it (30 minutes versus almost 4 hours) so I’d say one L3 charger is worth almost 8 L2 chargers. It can serve almost 8 times as many customers in the same amount of time.

Chademo is a dying standard, everywhere but Japan. Lots of new CCS chargers going in around Atlanta and they all seem to support both L2 and L3, at least the public pay charging stations do. Maybe businesses providing free charging to their customers and longer term parking lots like workplaces and airports will only offer L2. I think if it hasn’t already happened, soon L3 will be standard on most electric cars, but L2 will also still be standard for home charging. L1 is fine for home charging, L2 is fine for local charging, but L3 is a requirement for practical long distance travel.