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[vinceherman]

I have an SR/F premium ordered, so up to 6kW
I will use the wall outlet at work and at home.  But I want to start ramping up on what will be needed to put in a charging station at home.
I have a 30 amp dryer outlet on the wall of my laundry room that shares a wall with the garage.  I want to look at re-purposing this for a charge station.
Many charging stations want a 40A circuit.  Are there options for 30A breakers?

[Auriga]

You want to use 80% of max rated amperage for charging. For that, I'd look at a 24A EVSE. For example, this Clipper Creek would fit the bill
https://store.clippercreek.com/hcs-40-hcs-40p-ev-charging-station

[Doug S]

You DON'T NEED a charging station! Just a simple 10-30 or 14-30 outlet will work fine. I wish people would quit wasting their money on those things.

[Auriga]

You could use the included Turbocord Dual, but it is limited to 16A at 240V or 3.8kW. With the EVSE on that circuit, you'd get 5.76kW, and a 40A you could do 9.6kW.

So not sure why he wouldn't want an EVSE for premium, considering the 1.96kW difference in charging rate

[flattetyre]

You ordered a SR/F ($) and want a charge station ($) yet you are worrying about repurposing a dryer outlet on a line that doesn't support the power you want. Hmm...

The obvious solution here is to contact a electrician and get them to run whatever you need from your service box to the garage. You can do 50 amps no problem and it's not expensive. This is a really simple job, easy to do without permit.

[MrBlc]

You DON'T NEED a charging station! Just a simple 10-30 or 14-30 outlet will work fine. I wish people would quit wasting their money on those things.

Considering how many fires that have resulted from overextending the "normal" outlets.. This is a BOLD statement.. Just because it works for you it's NOT designed for the long period of constant draw and definately NOT a recommended statement to give.

Sincerely an electrician.

[Doug S]

.. This is a BOLD statement.. Just because it works for you it's NOT designed for the long period of constant draw and definately NOT a recommended statement to give.

Sincerely an electrician.

It's not "bold" at all. If there's a 30-amp dryer outlet located on the other wall, it's virtually guaranteed to have wiring capable of a minimum of 30 amps to supply it. Otherwise, why would you install a 30-amp outlet?

And in any event, by the National Electrical Code (which you should know by heart), the fuse/breaker MUST be capable of protecting the wiring. The worst possible thing that could happen is you'll blow a fuse or trip a breaker. Now, if your wiring is old and decrepit, or just defective, that's another story, but then you have problems beyond just "where am I going to recharge my electric motorcycle?".

But I wasn't talking about the wiring. I'm assuming there IS 30-amp wiring supporting that dryer outlet...or if there's not, you'll have the electrician install a new run, properly rated. I'm just saying that the "charge station" boxes really accomplish very little. There's nothing special about the 220VAC supplied to recharge an EV, and a simple $20 outlet will work just as well as one of those many-hundred-dollar things. Some public charging stations require some sort of handshaking or signalling in the name of safety, but AFAIK none of the EVs do. As far as I'm concerned, those boxes are really just a long cable and an adapter to a J1772 plug.

Edit: If, when it becomes available, you opt for the extra 6kW "charge tank" charger, 30A won't be adequate to supply all 12kW worth of charging capability you'll have. At that point, you will definitely need to have an electrician install a 50A cable run. But even then, an outlet is all you need.

[DynoMutt]

The J1772 connector is designed for many more insertion/removal actions than the plugs you describe, also there would be less risk of arcing because the contacts are recessed and the J1772 protocol forces a delay in establishing contact on the circuit.

I agree that the world would be a better place if an L6-30R or L14-30R was available everywhere I'd ever want to park, but I don't think they were made to be durable enough for plug/unplug actions many times per day without arcing.

Also, the J1772 connector has built-in provision for locking, it's possible to loop a luggage lock through the button to prevent its removal by unauthorized parties.

[togo]

Doug, continuous loads are supposed to limit themselves to 80% of rated.  So you should draw no more than 24 continuous amps from your 30A circuit. 

And a constant-power charger will draw more amps when voltage drops (like in brownout conditions).

Anyway, I'd say that a NEMA 14-50 will be fine for 6kw, indeed even as high as 7600w assuming voltage never below 190v (0.8*50*190=7600) and an EVSE is not required, but counting on 30A circuits to supply that is silly (0.8*30*190=4560) though it may have worked for you so far.

[vinceherman]

You ordered a SR/F ($) and want a charge station ($) yet you are worrying about repurposing a dryer outlet on a line that doesn't support the power you want. Hmm...

You make a good point.  But I think that it does support the power I want.  The premium has 6kW of charger.  The math that others have been using says that a L2 pulling 24A on 240V will provide 5.76kW.
That is a lot better than the 1.4kW charging that I will have using the standard wall outlet.
My hope is that it will be fast enough charging to leave the bike at 60(ish)% overnight, and pop it on to charge before I jump in the shower in the morning.

[Doug S]

Doug, continuous loads are supposed to limit themselves to 80% of rated.  So you should draw no more than 24 continuous amps from your 30A circuit.

Who says we're "supposed to"? It may be recommended design practice in some disciplines, but I'm pretty sure a "30A" breaker or outlet is rated for continuous use -- if they weren't, they'd be called 24A outlets. I'm not aware of any derating requirements in the NEC or anywhere else.

And a constant-power charger will draw more amps when voltage drops (like in brownout conditions).

Yes, but the opposite argument is that a "6kW" charger doesn't actually supply 6kW for very long, anyhow. Further, that's why everything has +- tolerances, to allow for local and temporary variances/overloads. Even if you do have a brownout, and your charger doesn't behave well (by dropping the charge current or dropping out altogether), everything can withstand the load. If there's ever a danger of anything overheating dangerously, the fuse or the breaker will protect the wiring, the outlet and the equipment. That's what fuses and breakers are FOR.

[/quote]
Anyway, I'd say that a NEMA 14-50 will be fine for 6kw, indeed even as high as 7600w assuming voltage never below 190v (0.8*50*190=7600) and an EVSE is not required, but counting on 30A circuits to supply that is silly (0.8*30*190=4560) though it may have worked for you so far.
[/quote]

Agreed...and anyhow, I wasn't talking about capacities or wiring. I'm just saying a "charge station" is no better than an outlet. DynoMutt may have a couple of minor points with durability and lockability (though I'd argue with him about the J1772 having recessed leads that are safer -- if a 14-30 plug/outlet was "unsafe", it would be pulled from the market), but for occasional home use, I just can't justify the extra expense.

[togo]

> > Doug, continuous loads are supposed to limit themselves to 80% of rated.  So you should draw no more than 24 continuous amps from your 30A circuit.

>  Who says we're "supposed to"? It may be recommended design practice in some disciplines, but I'm pretty sure a "30A" breaker or outlet is rated for continuous use -- if they weren't, they'd be called 24A outlets. I'm not aware of any derating requirements in the NEC or anywhere else.

https://blog.schneider-electric.com/datacenter/power-and-cooling/2014/06/12/clearing-confusion-80-vs-100-rated-circuit-breakers/

> > And a constant-power charger will draw more amps when voltage drops (like in brownout conditions).

> Yes, but the opposite argument is that a "6kW" charger doesn't actually supply 6kW for very long, anyhow.

Really?  My diginows provide pretty constant current unless they measure too much heat.  Each one gives me almost 3.5kw if I give it 240VAC all the way up to 116.5v on the battery.

>  Further, that's why everything has +- tolerances, to allow for local and temporary variances/overloads. Even if you do have a brownout, and your charger doesn't behave well (by dropping the charge current or dropping out altogether), everything can withstand the load. If there's ever a danger of anything overheating dangerously, the fuse or the breaker will protect the wiring, the outlet and the equipment. That's what fuses and breakers are FOR.

Circuit breakers trip at higher than design load.  Doesn't mean it's fine to run hard till the breaker trips.

> ... and anyhow, I wasn't talking about capacities or wiring. I'm just saying a "charge station" is no better than an outlet. DynoMutt may have a couple of minor points with durability and lockability (though I'd argue with him about the J1772 having recessed leads that are safer -- if a 14-30 plug/outlet was "unsafe", it would be pulled from the market), but for occasional home use, I just can't justify the extra expense.

Well, if you pull a NEMA plug from the wall 1/4" inch, there'll be powered contacts that small fingers could touch, and even at 1/8" a metal utensil in curious hands could touch, so, yeah, J1772 is safer.  But enough safer to justify the higher cost?  Well, depends on your situation.  A lockable cover is cheaper.

[Fran K]

I went and looked at our electric clothes dryer,  28 amps says 3 or four wire.

[Doug S]

https://blog.schneider-electric.com/datacenter/power-and-cooling/2014/06/12/clearing-confusion-80-vs-100-rated-circuit-breakers/

The thing I'm reading here is that "a circuit breaker for a branch circuit must be rated such that it can handle the noncontinuous load plus 125% of the continuous load." At the bare minimum, then, 125% of a continuous 30A load is 37.5 amps. So for a "30A" circuit, a 37.5A circcuit breaker is required, or better. This clause requires a HIGHER rated circuit breaker than nominal, not lower. Please correct me if I'm wrong.

Really?  My diginows provide pretty constant current unless they measure too much heat.  Each one gives me almost 3.5kw if I give it 240VAC all the way up to 116.5v on the battery.

Mine doesn't. I've never exceeded 6kW on my 2.0 Diginow, nominal 6.6kW, under any conditions. And when the line voltage drops, the charge current drops, just as it should so as not to abuse the line breaker. It seems really well behaved to me.

Circuit breakers trip at higher than design load.  Doesn't mean it's fine to run hard till the breaker trips.

Well, what does it mean, then? The breaker is designed to, and MUST, protect everything else. If it's "not okay" to run until the breaker trips, what's it there for?

> ... and anyhow, I wasn't talking about capacities or wiring. I'm just saying a "charge station" is no better than an outlet. DynoMutt may have a couple of minor points with durability and lockability (though I'd argue with him about the J1772 having recessed leads that are safer -- if a 14-30 plug/outlet was "unsafe", it would be pulled from the market), but for occasional home use, I just can't justify the extra expense.

Well, if you pull a NEMA plug from the wall 1/4" inch, there'll be powered contacts that small fingers could touch, and even at 1/8" a metal utensil in curious hands could touch, so, yeah, J1772 is safer.  But enough safer to justify the higher cost?  Well, depends on your situation.  A lockable cover is cheaper.

Fine. Then petition the NEC people to get the 14-30 plug/outlet, along with just about every approved plug/outlet combo, pulled from the market. In reality, they're not "unsafe" just because you say they're unsafe.

[Curt]

I need Level 2 charging in my garage, but want to leave my NEMA 10-30P dryer out of this. From what I've researched, it would be best to have an electrician install a NEMA 14-50R in my garage with 100% rated breakers and wiring. 14-50 seems to be the most widely supported, so I'll be able to buy and install whatever charger is needed now or in the future.

My house has 200A service, hopefully enough for oven, dryer, A/C and level 2 station.

Suitable charging stations seem to be 16A, 20A, 24A, 32A, or 40A. Anything larger would need to be hardwired: 12kW is 50A, or maybe nominally 48A. That seems quite a lot of power for residential, and frankly do I really need to supercharge a bike while parked at home?

I admit my real need is not for the SR/F (yet) but for the 60 kWh Chevy Bolt that I acquired on Sunday. It became immediately obvious that Level 1 charging is not going to work (8A @ 925W = pathetic 4 mi/h, or 12A @ 1.4kW = 6 mi/h). On Level 2 it can take up to 32A (7.7kW = 20 mi/h).

Possibility 1 is this $189 charger at 16A (3.8kW = suitable for SR/F standard model only, charge Bolt in ~20 hours)
https://www.steam-brite.com/electric-vehicle-charger-evse-220240v-level-nema-1450p-plug-j1772-charging-station-duosida-20180802-free-shipping-p-93986.html?gclid=CjwKCAiA_P3jBRAqEiwAZyWWaB9gfn0KatP4ukfbgEGFKlU3-5gbmEwtPGmW_KjRsu2O-s7eL7sZvxoCYdsQAvD_BwE

Possibility 2 is this $589 charger at 32A (7.7kW = suitable for SR/F premium model, charge Bolt in ~10 hours) from Clipper Creek
https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-20-to-32?product_id=67

Possibility 3 is this $659 charger at 40A, which being overrated would give me more confidence in its lifespan.
https://store.clippercreek.com/level2/level2-40-to-80/HCS-50P-Plug-in-40%20Amp-EVSE-Charging-Station-25-ft-over-molded-cable-NEMA-14-50