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[Ddub]

Hello all, I am about to buy a 2014 DS 11.4. The bike actually only has 700 miles on it. Currently the battery pack has been removed as it was going to be used for another electric project, and I need some input on how you would recommend testing the battery before I buy it. I know I could just use my DMM and test surface voltage but this doesnt tell me the state of health, so any input would be greatly appreciated.
 Thanks,
     Don

[MVetter]

I'm guessing you're probably not anywhere near Zero to have a degradation study done? I'm not sure there's a good way for the layman to test that without it being in the bike because then you could drain it, run a meter on it and charge it to full then measure that.

[Ddub]

I would have to buy it then run it 60 miles to a dealer then hope the guy would take it back if the battery is junk. Is the BMS located in the battery pack? If so I might be able to plug it in and see what the BMS states on the lights? But that only tells me charge and balance i believe. Well tough decision ahead thanks for your response.

[Moto7575]

What about plugging the battery back in the DS, and having a look at the logs ?

[Ddub]

I will have to see when I get there, so far this is sight unseen. The owner told me he disassembled the motorcycle in hopes of using the electronics for another project, then realized that it is too late in life to finish his project so he put everything on a pallet (includes everything to reassemble the motorcycle). As far as putting it back together, I am not worried as I have been a motorcycle tech for over 16 years and for the last 8 years an instructor for the electrical classes at MMI. What I am worried about is the battery. The owner said he fully charged it and then left it sit. Well lithium does not like to be left full charge. I know that the bike itself would slowly discharge which would be good as long as it doesnt drop below 30%, but with the battery out of the bike I am not sure it can self discharge well enough to get away from full charge unless the BMS is hooked to it. From what I have read the BMS is in the battery pack so it might be alright. As far as hooking it up and looking at the logs, I am not sure the cables are long enough to make it to the plug without reinstalling the battery first. Although I have been a mechanic and instructor for awhile it is mostly ICE bikes and the normal 12V systems on those bikes.I have taken EV classes over this last year on the technology side, but thats only larger scale car EV, not motorcycles.
Well enough blabbering, thanks guys. Ill do more research to see if I can find a simple way to check it. I have notice you can not find a service manual for the zero motorcycles, with the exception of the unofficial service manual. Unless one of you have access to one?

[Richard230]

I kept my 2014 S fully charged 24/7 for four years and, while it did seem stop charging at 92% during the fourth year, the battery pack is still functioning fine. However, (personally) I suspect that this reduction in capacity might have more to do with a couple of bad cells that are hitting their maximum voltage and causing the BMS to shut down the charging system than the cells having been degraded due to being fully charged all of the time.  (Up until a couple of years ago, Zero was recommending that the battery charger be kept plugged in and charging continuously, which is what I was doing.) So chances are that having the batteries sit around for a while fully charged is not likely to make them brick.

[DonTom]

I kept my 2014 S fully charged 24/7 for four years and, while it did seem stop charging at 92% during the fourth year, the battery pack is still functioning fine. However, (personally) I suspect that this reduction in capacity might have more to do with a couple of bad cells that are hitting their maximum voltage and causing the BMS to shut down the charging system than the cells having been degraded due to being fully charged all of the time.  (Up until a couple of years ago, Zero was recommending that the battery charger be kept plugged in and charging continuously, which is what I was doing.) So chances are that having the batteries sit around for a while fully charged is not likely to make them brick.

What is your battery voltage at that 92%? If it's 116.5 VDC your battery is fully charged no matter what your SOC indicates. Could be a calibration problem and not a battery problem.

If you have the full voltage at 92%, I would try running the battery down to a few percent and recharge and see what happens.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Richard230]

I kept my 2014 S fully charged 24/7 for four years and, while it did seem stop charging at 92% during the fourth year, the battery pack is still functioning fine. However, (personally) I suspect that this reduction in capacity might have more to do with a couple of bad cells that are hitting their maximum voltage and causing the BMS to shut down the charging system than the cells having been degraded due to being fully charged all of the time.  (Up until a couple of years ago, Zero was recommending that the battery charger be kept plugged in and charging continuously, which is what I was doing.) So chances are that having the batteries sit around for a while fully charged is not likely to make them brick.

What is your battery voltage at that 92%? If it's 116.5 VDC your battery is fully charged no matter what your SOC indicates. Could be a calibration problem and not a battery problem.

If you have the full voltage at 92%, I would try running the battery down to a few percent and recharge and see what happens.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

You may be right.  But the bike is owned by my daughter now and she is happy with the way it is running and doesn't want to do stuff like that. Sometimes I can get her to leave the charger plugged in for 5 days and then the display will slowly climb to 98%, but it drops rapidly once under weigh until it gets to 92% and from then on the power drain is normal. She just uses it for local trips and hasn't run the pack below 50% since I gave it to her.  Range anxiety, naturally.   

[DonTom]

You may be right.  But the bike is owned by my daughter now and she is happy with the way it is running and doesn't want to do stuff like that. Sometimes I can get her to leave the charger plugged in for 5 days and then the display will slowly climb to 98%, but it drops rapidly once under weigh until it gets to 92% and from then on the power drain is normal. She just uses it for local trips and hasn't run the pack below 50% since I gave it to her.  Range anxiety, naturally.   

I think your 92% SOC  is probably  100% charged and your 98% SOC is something like 101% charged so it drops very fast under load. You get your worse range at the extreme ends.

Somehow I think draining the battery down to below 5% or so will help with the calibration of the SOC. Might have to be done two or three times with an improvement noticed each time.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Richard230]

You may be right.  But the bike is owned by my daughter now and she is happy with the way it is running and doesn't want to do stuff like that. Sometimes I can get her to leave the charger plugged in for 5 days and then the display will slowly climb to 98%, but it drops rapidly once under weigh until it gets to 92% and from then on the power drain is normal. She just uses it for local trips and hasn't run the pack below 50% since I gave it to her.  Range anxiety, naturally.   

I think your 92% SOC  is probably  100% charged and your 98% SOC is something like 101% charged so it drops very fast under load. You get your worse range at the extreme ends.

Somehow I think draining the battery down to below 5% or so will help with the calibration of the SOC. Might have to be done two or three times with an improvement noticed each time.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

I did that one time when the 2014 S was new and it did seem to increase the accuracy of the SOC display.  But now that my daughter has the bike it has not been run below 50%.  Maybe one of these days she will give it a try.  I ran my 2018 S below "00" and it seems still right on the money.  If the display ever starts slipping on my bike, I give that a try again.

I forgot to mention:  When my daughter's Zero shows a 92% SOC, the voltage reads 113 volts. Charging to 98% shows 115 volts.

[MostlyBonkers]

It may help to know that I could rely on getting 65 miles of mixed riding out of my 2014DS with its original 11.4 pack for at least the first 20,000 miles. After that a couple of cells went bad and Zero replaced the battery. Long story.

I suggest asking to test ride the bike to ensure you get at least 60 miles of range. Also pull the logs and run them through the log file parser to make sure there aren't any warning messages. Keep an eye out for the current output being restricted to less that 400 amps above 30% state of charge.

[Ddub]

Cant take a ride as the battery has been removed from the bike, for a different project that he decided to not do. So the bike is basically a rolling chassis with the battery not installed. I am going to look at it Wednesday after work. The price is cheap enough that I do not mind putting it back together. Was just hoping for another way to test it before I pick it up. And the Zero dealer told me they wanted 1.5 hours diagnostics just to test the battery. What is the fully charged voltage of the monolith battery pack? Ill just test the surface voltage and hope that I do not have high internal resistance that will cause huge voltage sag.
Thanks for your input though

[MVetter]

All Zero batteries operate between 95-116.4 Volts. What you need to see is what the battery believes its Amp hours are and ideally, do a test drain from empty-full with a meter.

[Ddub]

Thank you all for your help. I bit the bullet and bought the masterpiece in pieces. I actually looked at it today and stared with what you see in the pics .By the end of the day I was riding it down the street.  The previous owner stripped the weave off the harness and gave the harness to me in a box I was able to figure out 95% of it, now I have to clean up the harness and put the body back on it. Battery was 85% charged after sitting a year and all the electronics work.
Thanks again

[Curt]

Holy crap dude, that's good work!! Can't believe it.