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Author Topic: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE  (Read 7154 times)

togo

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #45 on: February 15, 2019, 07:23:00 AM »

> > Also, that strategy worked out pretty well for the Tesla Model 3, too.

> But at least in that case you were dealing with a company that you knew something about.  ...

And were quite open about their progress and challenges.  Lightning is *not* that.
« Last Edit: February 20, 2019, 11:04:56 PM by togo »
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Badness

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #46 on: February 15, 2019, 10:59:11 AM »

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JaimeC

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #47 on: February 15, 2019, 06:17:23 PM »

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #48 on: February 16, 2019, 02:54:27 AM »

I got the email about reservations for the Strike yesterday, and put down $500. Now I just need to sell my Ducatis and my SR...
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Richard230

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #50 on: March 07, 2019, 04:42:58 AM »

Way to go ....

https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-capable-of-charging-on-level-1-2-3/

It is a mystery to me how Lightning can offer three levels of charging, a liquid-cooled motor and its advertised performance at a price of only $13,000.  This I have got to see.  They must be bankrolled by a large pot of money and are looking to make a big splash in the EV market.   ???
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togo

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #51 on: March 07, 2019, 04:53:00 AM »

Way to go ....

https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-capable-of-charging-on-level-1-2-3/

It is a mystery to me how Lightning can offer three levels of charging, a liquid-cooled motor and its advertised performance at a price of only $13,000.  This I have got to see.  They must be bankrolled by a large pot of money and are looking to make a big splash in the EV market.   ???

"As low as" price is probably quarter-battery and L1 charging.  Everything else is probably extra.
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Richard230

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #52 on: March 07, 2019, 05:47:28 AM »

Way to go ....

https://electrek.co/2019/03/06/lightning-strike-electric-motorcycle-capable-of-charging-on-level-1-2-3/

It is a mystery to me how Lightning can offer three levels of charging, a liquid-cooled motor and its advertised performance at a price of only $13,000.  This I have got to see.  They must be bankrolled by a large pot of money and are looking to make a big splash in the EV market.   ???

"As low as" price is probably quarter-battery and L1 charging.  Everything else is probably extra.

I wouldn't be surprised if that was the case, but the "press" and customers putting down deposits might be somewhat unhappy if that happened.
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FuzzyTrace

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #53 on: March 07, 2019, 07:33:53 AM »

Anyone seen this? Is this LS-218 or Strike test rig? http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/essais/motos/lightning-strike-prototype.php
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Fran K

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #54 on: March 07, 2019, 09:41:29 AM »

Anyone seen this? Is this LS-218 or Strike test rig? http://www.lerepairedesmotards.com/essais/motos/lightning-strike-prototype.php

I translated it a little bite at a time.  It is a prototype the guy was riding around in California during those fires.  It is dated early January 2019.

Like the Alta it has a 15,000 rpm motor and it looks to have single stage reduction which will really cause some complications for the left ankle if the footpeg is in a standard or even what is now called street fighter configuration.  I guess a street fighter has the peg at the swingarm pivot.  The base model will have half the voltage of the up grade one the way I read it.  What I got below using Bing translate for the blocks between the pictures.

I just read the news today balance of trade with China is worse than ever.  Trade war, world reserve currency, all sorts of stuff to contemplate on this one.

Electric Motorcycle Test Lightning Strike

The right price for electric sports

Induction motor of 150V, 96 CV and 95 Nm, aluminium monocoque frame, 206 kg, up to 190 km of autonomy and full in 40 MN

The last decade has seen an exponential increase in the availability, performance, autonomy and speed of recharging electric bikes, but also their price. The European leader of the BMW electrics thus tariffs its C-Evolution scooter from 15,400 euros, when the American Roadster Zero SR offers an entrance ticket to €18,500 and climbs up to €23,300 with the Power Tank and the fast charger. Finally, the upcoming Harley-Davidson Livewire is displayed on its side at €33,900.  "Save the planet"-without going into the green controversy from end to end-will therefore cost you. Unless...

In the midst of all these electric bikes, not forgetting all the scooters and electric models that we try, there are actors who propose something else and this is the case of Lightning, with his sporty Strike. A Lightning Strike that pushes performance to the extreme while lowering the price to the extreme. The bike has not yet been officially announced that you will be offered an exclusive world trial. A long-time prepared and anticipated trial for this exclusivity. We tell you everything...

Richard Hatfield, CEO and founder of Lightning Motorcycle Corp., has been designing E-bikes for longer than anyone and has won more competition than any of his competitors, including winning a direct confrontation In front of sports with combustion engines. In the last five years, the Californian company has embarked on the construction of the LS-218 homologated

For the road and resting on the Lightning holding the world speed record for an electric motorcycle, model that until now has only been produced to 40 copies for orders from around the world, although the majority of the models have been sold to United states. Buyers had the choice between three 380v battery packs to power the 200 horsepower engine, each offering 160 to 240 km of autonomy for a rate between $38,888 and $46,888. If it delivers exceptional performance, the Lightning has so far remained in the standard in terms of price.

But Richard Hatfield wants to get out of the financial comfort zone and make electric bikes competitive in terms of price and performance in the face of thermals. We were amazed when we read the price announced for the Lightning without believing. But that is what he will do with the launch of the Lightning Strike, a kind of LS-218 reduced in configuration 600 supersport that we had the privilege of being able to test in California... On a machine that's still in development. So this is the prototype we're talking about

Discovery

Like the LS-218, the Lightning Strike always delivers exceptional performance for an electric without counting its price of $12,988 (excluding taxes) for the basic model. This is for the version that makes just under half the power of the LS-218 with 96 horsepower at 15,000 RPM delivered by a three-phase, liquid-cooled 150V induction motor entirely made by Lightning. A power that it is possible to raise to 120 horses with the model of 300V whose price will be announced soon.

Both versions offer a constant torque of 95 Nm available from the beginning and are powered by Lightning packs incorporating Lithium-ion cells with a temperature management system and collecting data in real time to know The state of charge and wear of each polymer cell. It is also this battery management that is almost more important than the battery itself, especially to ensure its longevity.

The Strike boasts an autonomy of 190 km with its 18 kWh battery in urban traffic and from 120 to 140 km on motorway. The designer insists that it only takes 40 minutes to make 90% of the full. And it's also the electric brake, the cooldown in order to be able to make the kilometer in one day, impossible thing if it always takes 8h as is often the case to recharge the battery entirely.

The weight on, with all coolant, is announced for 206 kg, 20 less than the LS-218, with a distribution at 52/48% and a wheelbase of 1,420 mm. And yes, Hatfield had to pay a fee to Harley-Davidson for the use of the name Lightning Strike which was registered in the name of the defunct Buell brand.  "This is more than I wanted to pay, but not as much as I dreaded! "


This price of $12,988 for the Strike corresponds perfectly to the rates of the 600 supersports since in comparison, the Yamaha YZF-R6 is trading it at $12,199 in the United States. So how has Lightning managed to get this price so low by producing what is presented as the equivalent of the Tesla Model 3 on 2-wheeler? According to the boss, this sale price of the Strike is quite tenable because of the complete restructuring of the company, especially with the open of two new factories of 1,850 m² each. The first is located in the heart of Silicon Valley, California, a few kilometers from the Apple Campus of Cupertino and 5 times larger than the one where the LS-218 project was initiated. The second is in China, in the town of Quzhou, 400 km south of Shanghai and close to the factories of QJ Benelli, KTM-CFMoto and Zhongneng, the new owner of Moto Morini.

The American site will be kept to develop the technologies while the majority of the parts will be produced in China. Part of the bikes will be assembled in the United States to be distributed while production destined for Asian markets will be in China. Lightning will apply the same strategy as Apple.

The definitive Strike will be unveiled in March with a production which should be made by June, in particular to provide all pre-orders already registered.


The Strike chassis was machined in China using highly technological machines, including the magnificent aluminium swing arm.

I have not been allowed to remove the casing of the LS-218 adapted to this bike yet more compact. The final result will be completely new and quite different from the lines drawn by Glynn Kerr on the LS-218. No chance therefore to observe the battery and electrical equipment inside let alone photograph them. Until the bike is officially unveiled, we can already say that the Strike rests essentially on an aluminium shell incorporating the batteries and serving as a frame.

The fully adjustable Öhlins suspension of the prototype will only be available on the high-end version and its price will be adapted accordingly. The much more economical base model will be based on a Showa suspension. With regard to the Brembo monoblock braking system directly taken from the LS-218, Hatfield is contemplating keeping it even on the basic version.

I also hope that there will be a whole range of driving modes for the serial Strike. With its RBW accelerator, it should at least have a rain mode, a road mode and, hopefully, a sporty mapping

In the Saddle

Straddling the Strike immediately reveals a more comfortable, rational and welcoming driving position than on the LS-218 that I have already tried, especially regarding the width of the front part of the saddle and the frame underneath. On the biggest bike, it was not uncomfortable, but the small bikers had difficulty to put their feet on the ground, or even to lay one without having to lean the bike. With the Strike this is no longer a problem, because by reducing his bike to scale 7/8, Lightning produced a more inviting motorcycle, even if at 813 mm, the saddle height has not changed.

However, the saddle is too tilted and it is difficult not to slide to the back of the false tank wrapping the batteries. The wristbands are also too flat (to avoid rubbing on the LS-218 fascia) and it is more difficult to pull back on the wrists. In any case they must be backed up, which will de facto limit the risk of slipping to the reservoir.

To end the criticism of the ergonomics of the Strike, the footrests are placed too high, even with the excellent grip offered by the Pirelli Diablo Supercorna mounted on forged aluminium rims. It is to be expected to see the series model to barter its supercorna for less expensive, but also less athletic, Angel GT. With my eighty meter, my legs are a bit cramped on the Strike, which not only interferes with the comfort level, but also limits the hips on the bike in the curves of Glendora. This also results in more difficulty in reaching the front brake lever, so I mostly content myself with the rear pedal, in its usual place, rather than the left lever to slow the Strike.

These critics are above all suggestions while the bike is still in the prototype stage. Similarly, there is no need to comment on the brakes and suspensions when they should not be on the series model. But Lightning will have to reconsider the geometry of the seat/handlebar/footrest triangle, which they seem willing to do for discussion with them.

Dynamic test

Four years ago I had the opportunity to ride on the mythical curves of Mulholland Highway on the handlebars of the LS-218. The opportunity to become today the first unsalaried biker of the company to fly the prototype Strike, however, will not be able to remake itself there because of the recent devastating fires. In doing so, it is the direction of the east towards Glendora, another place of concentration of motorcyclists in the area of Los Angeles, which we take. The laces and curves of these roads will be the perfect terrain to test this bike which, even raw and without its finishes, did not disappoint us.

At this level of development, the Strike prototype was based on the architecture of the LS-218, essentially retaking the cycle part of the Superbike starting with the brakes and suspensions. This is what led Hatfield to insist on covering the motorcycle with tape for the "camouflage", although it now seems to say "I'm a prototype, take a picture!". Fears related to fire disturbances will fortunately have left traffic off the road on this sunny winter Friday, so that in 5 hours of taxiing I have only crossed 17 cars and motorcycles, no photo or post on social networks not coming Thus disrupting the joy of Hatfield.

Driving the prototype of the Strike also made me happy, although there are inevitably many improvement points, mainly on the ergonomics of the bike. However, this model largely based on the LS-218 has ample time to be corrected by Lightning prior to the launch of the final production.

If the cycle part still requires adjustments, the engine of the Strike is already perfect in the state. After starting the bike, you have to stand ready for the traditional acceleration arm puller of electric bikes in general and Lightning in particular, so hang tight. But really good! The acceleration is not as monstrous as on the LS-218, but thanks to the instantaneousness of the torque, the bike responds as soon as one opens a little gas (way of speaking). It remains impressive and far superior on this point to most other sports motorcycles, regardless of their capacity. OK, the peak speed is also not as high as the LS, but it is not really the objective sought by this everyday electric motorcycle that marks a new start for Lightning, far from the absolute performance and more anchored in the real world; More accessible.

The Strike prototype thus offers an impressive acceleration coupled with a good low-speed dosage, especially at the end of a hairpin turn, with no abrupt traces in the middle of the turn as can be the case on some electric bikes.

The fact that the power and especially the torque extend to the "breaker" at 15,000 rpm so progressively and linearly, that there are no peaks in their deliverance that could cause a loss of adhesion of the rear Pirelli by a sudden arrival of Power as on a thermal Supersport, offers the possibility of more easily exploiting the performance of the Lightning engine. Thank you there, the way the ride-by-wire accelerator was mapped. If the shivering is ensured by opening the handle in large at any time, under "normal" rolling conditions the initial acceleration is less virulent than on other electric bikes and only happens once the bike is launched and rolls Around 50 km/h. A voluntary choice of the manufacturer who wants to propose a bike usable in town and on the road, not only on circuit.

Cycle part

If ergonomics is truly objectionable on several points, the geometry of the bike itself is devilishly effective. With its compactness, its accessibility and its engine twice as powerful, the Strike is much more agile than the heavy and voluminous LS-218, which shares the same steering geometry with a 24 ° hunting angle and a 105.3 mm wheel chase.


Brakes

Oh Yes, braking regenerative. It is this double function of an electric motorcycle, comparable to the motor brake of the thermals which also allows to recharge the batteries and thus improve the autonomy. On the prototype of the Strike it is set too strong. So it's hard to keep your speed in a curve without accelerating. At low speed, you have to be careful, because the bike slows down so abruptly that it is approaching instability. At the moment, this regenerative brake can only be adjusted from the Hatfield computer, but it is an indispensable feature on the bike, as BMW allows with its C-Evolution, or even what exists on the Lightning on the LS-218. This should be possible on the final model.


Nevertheless, this allowed me to attack the Glendoras in a less aggressive approach by using virtually no brakes in the climbs, only by releasing the accelerator and slightly braking from the rear. The Brembo brakes do their job perfectly to slow the Strike at high speed in combination with the regenerative brake, although they will necessarily have to be accompanied by an ABS for Europe. And that will be the case.

Conclusion

The Lightning Strike has the potential to change the deal on the electric motorcycle market. More performance for less euros is a potentially winning formula and Richard Hatfield deserves immense recognition for his creation, both for his long-term business vision and for engineering already rewarded on the circuit. I look forward to tasting the final version of the Lightning Strike which will mark the new generation of electric bikes where performance and charm combine with the concern of the fair price. A final price that I hope will not suffer in Europe too many taxes that often explain a final increase between the US price and the French price.

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wavelet

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #55 on: March 07, 2019, 07:34:27 PM »

^^
Very interesting! Thanks, Fran K.

This is the first time I've seen a reference to Lightning's having already sold more than single bike ever -- I hope that's indeed  true.

It also contains a bunch of relevant details... While a strategy of making parts in China yourself & assembling them in the US might be helpful to achieve a lower price, I'm still a bit skeptical -- I don't see such a strategy working without fairly large scale manufacturing, which requires a couple of years of a lot of sales before it can be achieved, or a huge investment right-off-the-bat (has any such investment been announced by anyone?)
Lots of sales also require a large dealer & support network, which also takes time to get up and running.

The range numbers given sound reasonable for a 18kWh battery, maybe the weight as well; no word about active battery cooling which sounds a pretty important issue to me, both for charging & riding.

Let's hope they can pull this off... If they do, it might finally get one of the manufacturers to dip their toes and announce a commercial electric model.
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JaimeC

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #56 on: March 07, 2019, 08:43:36 PM »

Let's hope they can pull this off... If they do, it might finally get one of the manufacturers to dip their toes and announce a commercial electric model.

There is this little company in the USA called "Harley Davidson."  I know they aren't very well known but perhaps you may have heard of them at some point?
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Richard230

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #57 on: March 07, 2019, 09:08:53 PM »

That was quite a review. Thanks for posting the translation, Frank.  But my first thought is: What are 18kWh worth of lithium batteries going for nowadays?  ???  And how does that cost fit into a $13K motorcycle price?  I just don't get the economics of the vehicle price.  ???
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FuzzyTrace

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #58 on: March 07, 2019, 09:50:07 PM »

Average is around $205 USD per Kwh
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NEW2elec

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Re: LIGHTNING STRIKES TWICE
« Reply #59 on: March 07, 2019, 09:55:17 PM »

I'm so torn on this bike.  All past actions say BS but I'd like to believe.
Just to compare to the LS218 which is accepting "reservations" by the way.  It comes with a 12kWh or 15kWh or 20kWh battery option.
The 12kWh is $38,888 while the 20kWh is $46,888.
There was either a video or article showing a LS218 under a small electric scooter/ 250 style sport bike company from China's show tent.
For the life of me I can't find it again.  That seems to be the only way he could be offering anything that cheap.  Of course if he can get his parts and batteries that much cheaper now then why hasn't the price and availability of the LS218 changed?
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