Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[Jarrett]

I have to admit, I've been disappointed with the acceleration of my DSR.  I figured with "116 ft-lbs of torque" it would be much quicker than ICE bikes with say 80 ft-lbs. of torque, but it's not.

[Neuer_User]

I have to admit, I've been disappointed with the acceleration of my DSR.  I figured with "116 ft-lbs of torque" it would be much quicker than ICE bikes with say 80 ft-lbs. of torque, but it's not.

Read my post above. Your "ICE bikes with say 80 ft-lbs. of torque" do not have 80 ft-lbs. You must multiply that value with the gear multiplication factor. And then it is much higher. No wonder, the DSR does disappoint you then...

[alko]

I have to admit, I've been disappointed with the acceleration of my DSR.  I figured with "116 ft-lbs of torque" it would be much quicker than ICE bikes with say 80 ft-lbs. of torque, but it's not.

Read my post above. Your "ICE bikes with say 80 ft-lbs. of torque" do not have 80 ft-lbs. You must multiply that value with the gear multiplication factor. And then it is much higher. No wonder, the DSR does disappoint you then...

I guess this quote,from Zeros website is a complete lie?

"The Zero DS delivers silent stump-pulling torque, churning up to an outrageous 116 ft-lb—more than any fuel-burning production literbike. Twist the throttle. With this stealth force hurling you forward, you’ll easily leave gas bikes behind"

I admit the zero torque is softened at take-off or we wouldn't be able to control the bike at lower speeds. If I want better excelleration, all I need to do is lose 50 pounds.

Btw, does Zero measure that torque at the motor or at the rear wheel?

Kinda makes me wish there was a gearbox and clutch. It would accelerate faster and get better highway range in top gear imo.

[Jarrett]

I guess this quote,from Zeros website is a complete lie?

It's technically not a lie, just misleading advertising.  It suggests that because the DSR has more claimed torque than gas liter bikes, then it will leave them behind easily.  It doesn't technically say that, but it certainly implies it. 

This would probably be more accurate:

The Zero DS delivers silent stump-pulling torque(as long as it is a little stump), churning up to an outrageous 116 ft-lb—more than any fuel-burning production literbike (even though those bikes are actually quicker than the DSR when ridden by someone that knows what they are doing).

Twist the throttle. With this stealth force hurling you forward, you’ll easily leave (most less than 600cc) gas bikes behind (as long as you are in Sport mode at the time and well above 50% of charge and are not in Thermal Protection Mode already and the other rider isn't really good at drag racing, even still they will likely pass you when you near 90 mph as that's where the DSR starts to peter out)

[alko]

I guess this quote,from Zeros website is a complete lie?

It's technically not a lie, just misleading advertising.  It suggests that because the DSR has more claimed torque than gas liter bikes, then it will leave them behind easily.  It doesn't technically say that, but it certainly implies it. 

This would probably be more accurate:

The Zero DS delivers silent stump-pulling torque(as long as it is a little stump), churning up to an outrageous 116 ft-lb—more than any fuel-burning production literbike (even though those bikes are actually quicker than the DSR when ridden by someone that knows what they are doing).

Twist the throttle. With this stealth force hurling you forward, you’ll easily leave (most less than 600cc) gas bikes behind (as long as you are in Sport mode at the time and well above 50% of charge and are not in Thermal Protection Mode already and the other rider isn't really good at drag racing, even still they will likely pass you when you near 90 mph as that's where the DSR starts to peter out)

Hahaha! Well put!
Accept most 600cc sport  bikes will beat you to 30mph if they have a good launch and because Zeros full torque supposedly doesn't kick-in until you hit 30mph.

[Jarrett]

lol, yep.  "make you are you going at least 30 mph before engaging with the ICE bike"

[alko]

lol, yep.  "make you are you going at least 30 mph before engaging with the ICE bike"

In a roll-on, I think zero will leave em behind while they're looking for the right gear.

[Jarrett]

"also, make sure they don't expect the race to occur"

[flattetyre]

the ZERO SEVCON does only give you the max torque when running over 30mph. From the start (0 mph) the max torque is much lower.

This extraordinary claim is bullshit. The take-off is neutered but all the torque is at the bottom. At 30MPH my FXS was beyond the fattest torque even on stock gearing.

[Jarrett]

It's different on the other models.  My DSR is sleepy til 30.

[heroto]

Back to the OP:
Any/Every moto is more crash prone without TC, ranging from a lot to just barely. The electrics are on the more likely to crash end of the spectrum.

[Israel]

Zero Motorcycles are crash prone due to a number of reasons, not the least of which is piss-poor dealer training and bad design.  There's also rider error. The statistics we've been shown suggest exponentially greater risk on a Zero as compared to a conventional petrol bike.  Just search for Zeros on auction site and run the numbers against actual sales <1000 annually.

[Jarrett]

I like data, let's see those statistics.

[pacificcricket]

I like data, let's see those statistics.

That's a bot. He doesn't have anything

[MostlyBonkers]

Ahem... my topic reply seems to have gone a bit wild so I'll have to split it...  [Part 1 of 2]

I think you're still focusing on the torque at the front sprocket and forgetting that final drive ratio and tyre circumference have a major part to play.

In fact the thrust at the back wheel is a more useful figure; never quoted by manufacturers,  never given as part of a dyno test and seldom calculated.  I'd love to see thrust versus rpm charted in each gear for piston bikes so we could compare that to EVs.  By the time you've got to the thrust figures, much more has been accounted for; torque conversion from transmissions, sprocket sizes, wheel sizes and even tyre depth.  Not to mention powertrain losses which can be very significant on piston powered bikes, especially when torque is quoted at the crankshaft. We consistently forget all the meshed gears, drag from oil and water pumps, power lost in the chain, the condition of the chain and so on.  Those losses often seem to be around 15% on piston bikes from the dyno tests I've seen.  That's with new bikes in top condition and nice clean chains.  There is only a belt to consider on a Zero which I believe saps no more than 2%. 

I'm also pretty confident that a brushless AC motor will maintain its performance with age and use.  A piston engine with 60,000 miles of use that needs a major service (spark plugs, air filter, valve adjustments, oil and filter), may not be producing the manufacturers quoted figures.

[Short break]

I've just made myself a cup of tea and during a short break from writing this post I've realised that thrust, whilst nice to know, still isn't the metric we need!  G-force measured on the road with stock tyres and plotted against speed has to be the ultimate metric we should be demanding.  It isn't difficult to measure these days and would take into account all the other factors between thrust and power at the back wheel and actually making progress.  These other forgotten factors can be extremely significant in determining acceleration: rolling resistance, aerodynamic drag and of course the weight of the machine and rider.  This might be less popular with bike reviewers as it's difficult to account for all the different sizes and shapes we come in.

So why do we almost never hear about g-force? I think it's for the following reasons:

1. G-force is usually a small number and therefore not very exciting: 0.7G at 30mph doesn't sound as impressive as 200bhp at 12,500 rpm (the latter figures only occurring in 1st gear at about 90mph on a modern sportsbike and for a split second at the crank).
2. G-force strips away all the bullshit, which marketing departments love to apply in layers to deceive us all.
3. It's much easier to quote manufacturers figures than to conduct independent testing.  Even if it just means setting up a data logger on a bike, it probably requires more effort and expertise than most reviewers have the time for.
4. Everyone has been brainwashed into worshipping horsepower.