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Author Topic: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??  (Read 1855 times)

DonTom

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #15 on: January 12, 2019, 01:32:17 PM »

They regularly got ICE'ed and a few months ago they were removed and returned to regular parking spaces.
EVs, especially the Tesla  Model 3 are selling like hotcakes.  I am hoping that they will soon have laws against those who ICE us as the EV's get more popular. I am hoping they will get tickets as large as for parking in a handicap zone.

-Don-   Auburn, CA
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Richard230

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #16 on: January 12, 2019, 08:35:37 PM »

They regularly got ICE'ed and a few months ago they were removed and returned to regular parking spaces.
EVs, especially the Tesla  Model 3 are selling like hotcakes.  I am hoping that they will soon have laws against those who ICE us as the EV's get more popular. I am hoping they will get tickets as large as for parking in a handicap zone.

-Don-   Auburn, CA

The problem is that many of these business-adjacent charging stations are located on private property and can only be enforced by the property or store owner and their only option is to have the vehicle towed. I have never heard of that happening as the business does not want to do anything that might offend one or more of their customers.

Of course there are also many charging stations located on public property, but those would require the state or local government to pass laws making ICE'ing illegal and subject to fines.  I don't know if there are any state-wide EV parking space laws. If there are, I haven't heard about them.

At the local level you could probably be ticketed by a parking enforcement officer for violating a parking restriction sign if you have ICE'ed the space.  That happened to my daughter once when she parked her SUV next to (but not at) a charging station and was given a ticket for parking in a charging station stall. It took her a few days, but she was able to get that ticket tossed out by showing the cops that there was no sign prohibiting anyone parking in the space.

Right now my feeling is that the public still isn't really all that sympathetic to EV owners who many perceive as being too wealthy and are already receiving more than their share of benefits, such as purchase rebates and access to HOV lanes for single-occupant vehicles. In fact, in California some older EVs are being kicked out of HOV lanes. Also, rebates are being reduced or eliminated, depending upon the owner's income, proof of which needs to be supplied to the agency who is issuing EV rebates.

Finally, how many other states besides California, have laws that encourage owning an electric vehicle?  My guess is not too many and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Federal EV income-tax credit start fading away soon.  ???
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DonTom

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #17 on: January 13, 2019, 09:37:33 AM »

The problem is that many of these business-adjacent charging stations are located on private property and can only be enforced by the property or store owner and their only option is to have the vehicle towed. I have never heard of that happening as the business does not want to do anything that might offend one or more of their customers.
Many years ago (at least 30 years ago)  a law (in CA) was passed that so-called private property available for public use is not to be considered as private property to law enforcement and parking laws and such can be enforced  on such property without anybody's permission. Such as in shopping malls, etc., where they have handicapped parking.

With the number of EV's selling lately (especially the Tesla Model 3), I don't think it will be long before there is a law on EV parking--espcally if the misuse continues.

Perhaps for now, the more we get ICEd the better so we can get such a law even faster.  The more it's an issue the faster it will be solved, IMO.

Of course there are also many charging stations located on public property, but those would require the state or local government to pass laws making ICE'ing illegal and subject to fines.  I don't know if there are any state-wide EV parking space laws. If there are, I haven't heard about them.
Neither have I, and I am hoping that soon gets changed.
Right now my feeling is that the public still isn't really all that sympathetic to EV owners who many perceive as being too wealthy and are already receiving more than their share of benefits, such as purchase rebates and access to HOV lanes for single-occupant vehicles. In fact, in California some older EVs are being kicked out of HOV lanes. Also, rebates are being reduced or eliminated, depending upon the owner's income, proof of which needs to be supplied to the agency who is issuing EV rebates.
I think the rebates are less because now enough people will buy EV's without any rebate. If we have too many EVs in HOV lanes then it will defeat the purpose of having HOV lanes and they will be just as if they did not exist at all. In some areas, it is already getting like that and the non-HOV lanes can  sometimes be faster than the HOV lane.   And for the rebates, we only get back a small percentage of what we pay. For an example, I paid CA around  5K$ sales tax and also add in the CA registration fees. I get back less than half of what I paid to CA.  So CA comes out way ahead. They would not have got anything from me if I didn't buy my Tesla and Zero SR in CA.

Finally, how many other states besides California, have laws that encourage owning an electric vehicle?  My guess is not too many and I wouldn't be surprised to see the Federal EV income-tax credit start fading away soon.  ???
Yep. In NV, where I bought my ZERO DS, I felt like I was being harassed by NOT buying an ICE vehicle. For an example, when I buy new ICE vehicles in NV, I can register them on-line. But with an EV, I must go to a "full service NV DMV" (which are always packed)  and waste about a day to just get them  registered for the first time.  I do not know why, but in NV it's a different procedure to register an EV. They make it as difficult as possible, while ICE vehicles are made as easy as possible to register.

It's as if the State of NV DMV wants to harass EV owners.

So from now on, I will buy all my new EVs in CA. I doubt if I will buy another ICE vehicle for the rest of my life.

My Zero SR  and Tesla Model 3 were both bought here in CA.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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Richard230

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #18 on: January 13, 2019, 08:28:37 PM »

Regarding HOV lanes, what irritates me is that in California they are being turned into toll lanes for anyone who wants to drive a single-occupant vehicle in the lane and is willing to pay for it.  The funds generated by that scheme go to fund the area-wide transportation agency bureaucracy. In fact, some of the recent increase in gas taxes and vehicle registration fees will be going into changing HOV lanes into toll lanes.  Fortunately, motorcycles are not being charged for using these lanes, but only if they purchase a special device that will signal the toll equipment that a motorcycle is in the lane.  >:(
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caza

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #19 on: January 13, 2019, 11:53:34 PM »

You don't have to put the fastrak on your motorcycle. You just need to register it.

I ride in the "Express lane" on 680 with no fastrak on my Zero regularly and I am not billed for it.

I actually never even registered the bike with Fastrak. My Volt was registered and I have the device in that car, but the first time they tried to ticket me on the bike, they realized I had an account and automatically added the Zero to the account.

The bike shows up on my statements but there are no charges unless I go through a toll plaza.
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DonTom

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #20 on: January 14, 2019, 01:28:35 AM »

You don't have to put the fastrak on your motorcycle. You just need to register it.

I ride in the "Express lane" on 680 with no fastrak on my Zero regularly and I am not billed for it.

I actually never even registered the bike with Fastrak. My Volt was registered and I have the device in that car, but the first time they tried to ticket me on the bike, they realized I had an account and automatically added the Zero to the account.

The bike shows up on my statements but there are no charges unless I go through a toll plaza.
I thought any motorcycle was allowed in the HOV lanes nationwide. Has that changed?

If there has been a change, how come I have not yet been busted for using such lanes?

And how are the bikes detected? How does it show up on your Fastrak statement if the Fastrack is not even on the bike?

And automatically add? Something else new?  I do have a few FastTrack accounts as when I got mine they were only good for four vehicles each and I have always been over that.  Of course, only one is needed if it can be moved between vehicles and be detected every time, but I only had mine for the bridge tolls. But I have not been over any SF Bay Area bridges for a couple of years.

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
2017 Blk/Gold HD Road Glide Ultra
2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
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NEW2elec

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #21 on: January 14, 2019, 02:22:23 AM »

Yall need to start a WTF is wrong with CA thread.   ;D
The one nice thing was they allowed lane splitting so just make your own lane.

They had to go to court and vote out a few people here in GA to get them to shut down a toll operation after it had paid for the road but they liked the money and kept it going.  We have a HOV lane for 2 or more people, motorcycles and any EV with an EV plate.  There is a pay for use lane in sections but EVs are free for that too.
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DonTom

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #22 on: January 14, 2019, 03:12:00 AM »

Yall need to start a WTF is wrong with CA thread.   ;D
It would be a much shorter thread if it were a thread for what is NOT wrong with CA.  :)

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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1984 Yamaha Venture
2002 Suzuki DR200SE
2013 Triumph Trophy SE
2016 Kawasaki Versys 650 LT
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2017 Org Zero DS ZF 6.5/(now is 7.2)
2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
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Richard230

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #23 on: January 14, 2019, 04:20:30 AM »

You don't have to put the fastrak on your motorcycle. You just need to register it.

I ride in the "Express lane" on 680 with no fastrak on my Zero regularly and I am not billed for it.

I actually never even registered the bike with Fastrak. My Volt was registered and I have the device in that car, but the first time they tried to ticket me on the bike, they realized I had an account and automatically added the Zero to the account.

The bike shows up on my statements but there are no charges unless I go through a toll plaza.
I thought any motorcycle was allowed in the HOV lanes nationwide. Has that changed?

If there has been a change, how come I have not yet been busted for using such lanes?

And how are the bikes detected? How does it show up on your Fastrak statement if the Fastrack is not even on the bike?

And automatically add? Something else new?  I do have a few FastTrack accounts as when I got mine they were only good for four vehicles each and I have always been over that.  Of course, only one is needed if it can be moved between vehicles and be detected every time, but I only had mine for the bridge tolls. But I have not been over any SF Bay Area bridges for a couple of years.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

That was true until some HOV lanes were converted to toll (AKA Lexus) lanes.  I recently turned in my FastTrack responder for a new
FastTrack "Flex" pass device. It has a switch that if you are riding a motorcycle you need to switch to #3.  When you do that you will not be billed for riding in the HOV/toll lane. But if you do not have a "Flex" pass, or set the switch to #1 or #2, you will be sent a bill for riding in the HOV lane, just as if you were a single occupant of a car driving in the lane.   >:(
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caza

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #24 on: January 14, 2019, 05:24:51 AM »

I thought any motorcycle was allowed in the HOV lanes nationwide. Has that changed?

If there has been a change, how come I have not yet been busted for using such lanes?

And how are the bikes detected? How does it show up on your Fastrak statement if the Fastrack is not even on the bike?

And automatically add? Something else new?  I do have a few FastTrack accounts as when I got mine they were only good for four vehicles each and I have always been over that.  Of course, only one is needed if it can be moved between vehicles and be detected every time, but I only had mine for the bridge tolls. But I have not been over any SF Bay Area bridges for a couple of years.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

These express lanes have cameras in order to catch cars trying to cheat the system. So with no fastrak they take a picture of your vehicle, read the license plate, and attempt to ticket you. I got an email from fastrak saying a new vehicle had been automatically added to my account, showing me the license plate and asking me to contact them if this was incorrect.

I've continued to ride in the express lanes with no issues on the bike.

Before this I only had 1 car registered on my fastrak account, my volt, which has the described transponder on it set to 3. I was unaware 4 was the max # of vehicles.
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Richard230

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #25 on: January 14, 2019, 07:39:23 AM »

According to published news reports regarding the "express" lanes, motorcycles will be sent a bill for riding the the lane if they do not have a Flex pass set to #3.  So far I haven't heard for sure if this is true or not.  If it is true, there are going to be some unhappy out-of-state riders who have never heard of "express" lanes when they get a bill for riding in an HOV lane that they thought was free for motorcycle riders.   ???
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caza

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #26 on: January 14, 2019, 09:28:14 AM »

From Fastrak's FAQ:


Quote
Do I need a FasTrak toll tag if I'm a carpool, vanpool, motorcycle or other toll-exempt vehicle?
The requirement for carpools, vanpools, motorcycles, and other toll-exempt vehicles to have a FasTrak toll tag is set by the express lane operator.

SR-237 and I-680 Sunol express lanes

A FasTrak toll tag is not required. If you have a FasTrak toll tag, put it in the Mylar bag that it came with to avoid the roadside equipment from reading it and charging you a toll. It is important to make sure that after your toll-free trip, you properly re-install your toll tag onto your windshield. If you have a FasTrak Flex toll tag, set it in the proper 2 or 3+ position prior to starting your trip.

I-580 and I-680 Contra Costa express lanes

A special FasTrak toll tag is required to qualify for toll-free travel. This toll tag, called the FasTrak Flex toll tag, has a switch on the face of the tag that must be set in the 2 or 3+ position for the roadside equipment to register the vehicle as a toll-free vehicle. Use the 2 position if there are 2 people in the vehicle. Use the 3+ position if there are 3 or more people in the vehicle. Vanpools, motorcycles and eligible clean air vehicles should also use the 3+ position.

So it seems that as soon as I cross into Contra Costa on the same freeway, I do need the tag, but in Sunol I do not. What a simple and user-friendly system!
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DonTom

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #27 on: January 14, 2019, 11:47:06 AM »

According to published news reports regarding the "express" lanes, motorcycles will be sent a bill for riding the the lane if they do not have a Flex pass set to #3.  So far I haven't heard for sure if this is true or not.  If it is true, there are going to be some unhappy out-of-state riders who have never heard of "express" lanes when they get a bill for riding in an HOV lane that they thought was free for motorcycle riders.   ???
Sounds like CA had a decent system and now they changed it so they can make more money to fund more nonsense or whatever.

So what are the diamond lanes just east of Sacramento on I-80? I ride them all the time with my bikes, all but one with a NV plate and none have a tie to any of my fast-tracts, which I have not used in years.

So far, I have received no notices. Or do they ignore out of state plates? Is it only CA that has these rather complicated lanes where they  sometimes change the rules?  If so, how do they deal with out of state drivers who won't know this stuff?

Do the cameras pick up motorcycle license plates all that well?

-Don-  Auburn, CA
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2017 Red Zero SR ZF13 w/ Pwr Tank
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JaimeC

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #28 on: January 14, 2019, 05:56:30 PM »

Last year when heading down to Daytona Beach for Bike Week I noticed that there were EZ-Pass readers along the HOV lanes around Washington, DC.  I didn't see any charges on my bill the next month but I suspect they are doing something similar to California.
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Richard230

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Re: Seriously, WTF is wrong with people??
« Reply #29 on: January 15, 2019, 04:44:10 AM »

According to published news reports regarding the "express" lanes, motorcycles will be sent a bill for riding the the lane if they do not have a Flex pass set to #3.  So far I haven't heard for sure if this is true or not.  If it is true, there are going to be some unhappy out-of-state riders who have never heard of "express" lanes when they get a bill for riding in an HOV lane that they thought was free for motorcycle riders.   ???
Sounds like CA had a decent system and now they changed it so they can make more money to fund more nonsense or whatever.

So what are the diamond lanes just east of Sacramento on I-80? I ride them all the time with my bikes, all but one with a NV plate and none have a tie to any of my fast-tracts, which I have not used in years.

So far, I have received no notices. Or do they ignore out of state plates? Is it only CA that has these rather complicated lanes where they  sometimes change the rules?  If so, how do they deal with out of state drivers who won't know this stuff?

Do the cameras pick up motorcycle license plates all that well?

-Don-  Auburn, CA
 

Most diamond lanes have not yet been changed to toll lanes.  However, you will find them on some Bay Area freeways, like I-580, near Livermore, that have heavy commutes.  And more are planned.  They give you plenty of warning when you are in a toll lane.  There are lots of signs, extra striping and large overhead signs that will tell you the price at the time for traveling in the lanes.  This price changes all the time, depending upon the amount of traffic on the freeway, but it is never free, except during weekends and maybe holidays.

The cameras have no problem picking up motorcycle license plates, but apparently they just read the plate and automatically send out a bill without being able to differentiate between a car and a motorcycle. (Or maybe they just don't care.  :( )
« Last Edit: January 15, 2019, 04:46:26 AM by Richard230 »
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