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Author Topic: Zero SR/F  (Read 33766 times)

caza

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #75 on: January 13, 2019, 04:41:23 AM »

Without zero publishing numbers all we can really do is speculate in terms of worldwide sales. Individual countries might have data available but the US does not.

The idea that Zero is somehow selling less overall bikes (than alta) while being better known, having a bigger dealer network, having a wider range of bikes for a wider range of riders and having a similar starting price, well to me that's pretty far-fetched.

I would not be surprised if 2018 was a slow year for Zero though. With improvements continuing to be minimal and offerings from other manufacturers on the horizon, 2018 seems like it was a risky time to buy a Zero. I personally held off buying a new Zero in 2018 because I was expecting 2019 to bring a new platform. When the 2019's were mostly the same I decided to buy used.

Hopefully the SR/F's new platform will be the basis for the 2020 S/DS bikes and we'll start seeing real changes in these bikes.
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JaimeC

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #76 on: January 13, 2019, 05:00:15 AM »

S and SR make you lean forward, NOT a Japanese standard, more a sport tourer. I replaced my S stock bars with DS bars and still lean forward, just less. Still not quite standard.

The reason for the forward lean is that those bikes aren't equipped with windshields.  If you sat bolt upright, you'd be a SAIL.  If you look at the spec differences between the S and DS models, you'll note that the DS models have less range with all things being equal.  That's because the bolt upright seating position creates a LOT more wind drag.  It has nothing to do with being a "sport bike."

To me (at least), the most important thing an electric bike should have is RANGE.  ANYTHING to increase range is acceptable, even that little, teeny-tiny bit of forward lean designed into the ergonomics.  Sit on a Ducati Panigale or a Suzuki GSXR1000 and see what a REAL sportbike lean feels like.

If you tried to ride the S models like a real sportbike you'd quickly learn that there's a LOT more to a sport bike than a slight forward lean, too.  For one thing, the pegs will drag ridiculously early compared to any honest-to-God sportbike on the planet.  Sit on any REAL sportbike and you'll see your feet will be somewhere near your buttocks and your knees will be bent at considerably more than 90 degrees.

They are STANDARDS.  Yes, you might feel a little bit of weight on your wrists sitting on the bike in the showroom, but motorcycles are not meant to be static.  At anything above a jogging pace there is enough windblast to take that weight off your wrists.  Any faster and you'll want to angle your body even lower to get out of the wind as your arms will be hanging on trying to keep from being blown off the back of the bike (that's TIRING by the way... even the little commuter shield Zero sells goes a long way to alleviating that).

That's also why I never judge a bike just by sitting on it in the showroom.  That doesn't really tell me anything about the bike (other than how hard the seat is).  I need to be able to RIDE it before I make a decision.  In 2015 I got to ride an SR, and even though I didn't really need all that extra power, the ergonomics and overall feel and handling of the bike is what sold me.  As soon as I was able, I bought my S model.  Same range, ergonomics and handling, but I saved $3,000 in purchase price, and $400 a year in insurance costs.
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Moto7575

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #77 on: January 13, 2019, 12:43:17 PM »

What Zero said in the press is around 2000 sales per year. In some countries like France, they publish yearly statistics. Numbers are very small:

2016 : 104 units sold
2017 : 132 units sold (vs 830 for BMW Evo, 2 for Energica, 11 for KTM)

If you do a back of the envelop calculation based on France's GDP/population versus other countries where Zero do sell models, this is coherent with a 1500 to 2000 total sales.

Which brings me to my point : Zero's focus today should not be extending the number of models, but making existing customers hyper happy and ensuring a second hand market develops. Of they'll be restricted to a rich toy customer market, which  is probably not sustainable in the long term.



Without zero publishing numbers all we can really do is speculate in terms of worldwide sales. Individual countries might have data available but the US does not.

The idea that Zero is somehow selling less overall bikes (than alta) while being better known, having a bigger dealer network, having a wider range of bikes for a wider range of riders and having a similar starting price, well to me that's pretty far-fetched.

I would not be surprised if 2018 was a slow year for Zero though. With improvements continuing to be minimal and offerings from other manufacturers on the horizon, 2018 seems like it was a risky time to buy a Zero. I personally held off buying a new Zero in 2018 because I was expecting 2019 to bring a new platform. When the 2019's were mostly the same I decided to buy used.

Hopefully the SR/F's new platform will be the basis for the 2020 S/DS bikes and we'll start seeing real changes in these bikes.
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centra12

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #78 on: January 13, 2019, 04:54:39 PM »

If I look at the world map with Zero Dealers, there are only big markets. USA and Europe. In Europe, it will be France and Germany that have the most sales! There live most of the people and have the necessary money.

750 units I think too little but 2000?
My guess is 1000-1200 units per year
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Erasmo

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #79 on: January 14, 2019, 04:26:11 AM »

Nah, France alone was responsible for 211 registrations, Germany did about 150 and the Netherlands did 84. I don't have the numbers for Norway but they are a rich EV powerhouse and then we even't have started with the US and Canada yet. 2000 seems pretty doable to me.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #80 on: January 14, 2019, 06:37:39 AM »

2000 is consistent with serial number tracking and is probably short a bit. 2017 sales were probably at that level and 2018 projected to be higher by 25% at last check mid year.

These aren’t bad, but need to be closer to 10,000, and definitely above 5,000. Zero needs a solid sales jump, and the SR/F could be it by combining new systems upgrades with HD marketing and sales halo.
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Richard230

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #81 on: January 14, 2019, 07:40:55 AM »

2000 is consistent with serial number tracking and is probably short a bit. 2017 sales were probably at that level and 2018 projected to be higher by 25% at last check mid year.

These aren’t bad, but need to be closer to 10,000, and definitely above 5,000. Zero needs a solid sales jump, and the SR/F could be it by combining new systems upgrades with HD marketing and sales halo.

But that is going to depend upon the price of the SR/F when it arrives.   ???
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #82 on: January 14, 2019, 07:45:54 AM »

2000 is consistent with serial number tracking and is probably short a bit. 2017 sales were probably at that level and 2018 projected to be higher by 25% at last check mid year.

These aren’t bad, but need to be closer to 10,000, and definitely above 5,000. Zero needs a solid sales jump, and the SR/F could be it by combining new systems upgrades with HD marketing and sales halo.

But that is going to depend upon the price of the SR/F when it arrives.   ???

Sure. So what? It’ll easily cost less than the LiveWire and all of Zero’s existing models will cost even less.

It’s not like anyone can predict what will happen. I’m speculating on what the strategy is and what seems plausible. This whole thread doesn’t mean anything but at least we gathered some rumors.
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centra12

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #83 on: January 14, 2019, 10:52:37 PM »

Nah, France alone was responsible for 211 registrations, Germany did about 150 and the Netherlands did 84. I don't have the numbers for Norway but they are a rich EV powerhouse and then we even't have started with the US and Canada yet. 2000 seems pretty doable to me.


Models from 2017 were also sold in 2018. New dealers were added and all dealers needed registered 2018 models as demonstration
Maybe the 750 units were built in 2018 and sold to the customers.?!
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Moto7575

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #84 on: January 14, 2019, 11:52:56 PM »

Switzerland and Belgium seem to be quite active too (i have seen several used FX for sale there). So your 360 could be 400-420 for Eu
US it 5x the GDP of Europe, so if you add Canada and the US, 2000-2500 look probable.

Nah, France alone was responsible for 211 registrations, Germany did about 150 and the Netherlands did 84. I don't have the numbers for Norway but they are a rich EV powerhouse and then we even't have started with the US and Canada yet. 2000 seems pretty doable to me.
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JeremyConnors

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #85 on: January 15, 2019, 04:14:34 AM »

Why would comparison with the Harley be ridiculous?

It would seem to me that the Zero SF is probably a direct attempt by Zero to counteract the LiveWire introduction. Zero could likely provide the same sort of features (and likely more so) for less money and perhaps also beat the LiveWire to the market. No doubt Zero could do a lot with another $5-10K increase in price on a new model.  But I hope they hired an Italian to do their styling this time.  If the bike doesn't look really nice, it won't sell very well at the $20K+ market, no matter what the features.  And I think the LiveWire looks pretty nice for a "naked"-style motorcycle.

^This.
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dpmcdonald

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #86 on: January 17, 2019, 10:40:30 AM »

WTB more leaks. This anticipation is killing me!
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Doug S

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #87 on: January 17, 2019, 09:24:00 PM »

WTB more leaks. This anticipation is killing me!

+1. I realize the marketing tease is intended to stir up interest, but come on! This is almost more exciting than the comeback of DeMarcus Cousins.
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JaimeC

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Richard230

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Re: Zero SR/F
« Reply #89 on: January 19, 2019, 09:28:42 PM »

Cory West will be racing an SR/F up Pike Peak:
https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/2019-pikes-peak-international-hill-climb-entry-list/

How's THAT for "Exciting??"https://www.asphaltandrubber.com/racing/2019-pikes-peak-international-hill-climb-entry-list/

I wonder if H-D will try to field a LiveWire?  That would make for good publicity for that bike and maybe help to boost initial sales.
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