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[Moto7575]

Well commercial warranty is one thing, but selling a bike which can be dangerous even if serviced correctly in a low mileage is certainly something you can act one. They might try to discourage you, but the easiest in this case is using your insurance legal coverage if you have one.

To be fair my expectations on Zero are now so low that i would be more than happy to have it make 36.000 miles before I throw it away (the engine broken at 12.000, a 4000 $ fix) :-(

[buutvrij for life]

I know something about BMW quality as well..
Altough it was a car.  Bought an ex-demo car, so allmost brand new (some 2000 km's on it)
Terrible car. BMW never fixed the gearbox, among other serious things, during warranty.
First and last bimmer for me. I'll never buy overrated crap from them again.

P. S  I thinks BMW's old skool stuff is/looks great, but I have no experience regarding that..

[Moto7575]

What BMW in the US and Zero outside US seemingly have in common is being unable to propose a decent customer service outside your home country, or thinking that unhappy customer will just let it go. Which also explains why BMW Evo is growing so quickly here, and have so many positive feedbacks...

[Killroy]

Maybe Zero can't make more bikes than they allready do.
So why should they do a campaign costing huge money?

Its hard to know, but I speculate that Zero currently is a unsustainable. Zero needs to sell more bikes or die.  Zero may be breaking even right now, but they have a lot of debt.  They have had regular cash injections until last year.

[Killroy]

There are good and bad service anecdotes for BMW or Zero.  The BMW C evolution looks very mediocre to me for that price - it needs faster charging, more power, more range.

I think a lot of "bad service" is the responsibility of the dealer.  My local dealer San Jose BMW/Zero has been poor at normal motorcycle stuff. The dealer says Zeros are not hard to work on, but it is specialized. 

My experience working with Zero directly has been really good. I'm local to the headquarters, so I can go there for help.  Zero is a lean operation, so I can imagine that if they are doing all the dealers work, they can get overwhelmed. 

Its hard to have good data on reliability numbers of Zero, but from EMF and FaceBook, it sounds like Zero has software and EV hardware gremlins.  My Zero has been good, but I have experienced some occational gremlins and the dealer has had the bike for a week and have not found any solution.  The dealer is closed today and tomorrow, so Tuesday I will see if they have any solutions. 

[dennis-NL]

Maybe Zero can't make more bikes than they allready do.
So why should they do a campaign costing huge money?

Its hard to know, but I speculate that Zero currently is a unsustainable. Zero needs to sell more bikes or die.  Zero may be breaking even right now, but they have a lot of debt.  They have had regular cash injections until last year.

I see it as a good thing they are trying to sell only their complete drivetrain + battery to projects.
An easy way of getting more money without too many risks.

[togo]

> Thanks to my Zero, I am only adding about 300 miles to my
> car's odometer each year - which doesn't seem to make much
> difference to my car's insurance premium, unfortunately. 

My solution to that is to let other people drive my car and cover
my costs   ( - :    http://of.net/RED3

[JaimeC]

I know something about BMW quality as well..
Altough it was a car.  Bought an ex-demo car, so allmost brand new (some 2000 km's on it)
Terrible car. BMW never fixed the gearbox, among other serious things, during warranty.
First and last bimmer for me. I'll never buy overrated crap from them again.

P. S  I thinks BMW's old skool stuff is/looks great, but I have no experience regarding that..

Pre-2000, BMW motorcycles had a well-earned reputation for reliability/durability.  I had my original K100 for ten years and 158,000 problem free miles before it was stolen (and never recovered).  My 1999 K1200LT has had some issues, but nothing I consider a deal-breaker and it has 214,000 miles on it now.  I sold my 1996 R100RT to a friend of mine in 2000 when it had 40,000 miles on the odometer.  He still owns it and still rides it regularly.

The modern BMWs?  They're more interested in the kind of person who buys a new motorcycle every three or four years.  Knowing that, I don't know why ANYONE would buy a used BMW because it is probably only a few months away from requiring major service.  There's a reason BMW is near the BOTTOM of Consumer Reports reliability ranking; they EARNED it.

[Moto7575]

I think there might an issue specific to Europe. My insurance (Mutuelles des Motards) told me they have half a dozen of cases just for France, all involving issues in Zero's responsability (charger / defective engines / ...).

Zero Europe waits customer to start suing them before treating these issues correctly. This is a pity, because while customers might be responsible in some rare cases (but the insurance will never support these), you have unhappy customers in most of these cases, as well as dealers who are stretched between Zero Europe and themselves. My dealer already reduced  the square meters dedicated to Zero and stopped advertising. No way sales will take off this way - to the contrary.

There are good and bad service anecdotes for BMW or Zero.  The BMW C evolution looks very mediocre to me for that price - it needs faster charging, more power, more range.

I think a lot of "bad service" is the responsibility of the dealer.  My local dealer San Jose BMW/Zero has been poor at normal motorcycle stuff. The dealer says Zeros are not hard to work on, but it is specialized. 

My experience working with Zero directly has been really good. I'm local to the headquarters, so I can go there for help.  Zero is a lean operation, so I can imagine that if they are doing all the dealers work, they can get overwhelmed. 

Its hard to have good data on reliability numbers of Zero, but from EMF and FaceBook, it sounds like Zero has software and EV hardware gremlins.  My Zero has been good, but I have experienced some occational gremlins and the dealer has had the bike for a week and have not found any solution.  The dealer is closed today and tomorrow, so Tuesday I will see if they have any solutions.

[jheth]

One other thing:  Every weekend I ride up to the motorcycle hangout, Alice's Restaurant, on one of my motorcycles.  My BMW RS and Triumph Bonneville gets noticed, as does my Royal Enfield. But when I ride up there on my Zero no one has ever seemed to pay any attention the bike and I have yet to have anyone run over and say "Great looking motorcycle, what is it and where can I get one."   [emoji22]

Actually, I have the opposite reaction whenever I go to biker hangouts with my Zero.  Someone always comes up to me and asks me if it's one of those "electric bikes they've heard about."  Most of them didn't think they'd ever get to see one in real life and more than one were surprised to hear there is a local dealership where they can go demo one and buy one of their own.

I started going to some local "Electric Vehicle Gatherings" and (so far) I've been the only motorcyclist present and I always seem to attract the biggest crowd.

I have been to a number of EV events over the past 10 years and my observation, at least here in the SF Bay Area, is that electric cars get a lot more attention from the public than electric motorcycles.  Thanks to my Zero, I am only adding about 300 miles to my car's odometer each year - which doesn't seem to make much difference to my car's insurance premium, unfortunately.  [emoji20]

State Farm has reduced rates for low mileage cars. It's a program called Drive Safe and Save. I use it for a couple low-mileage cars I own. E-mail me if you have any questions (I'm not on these forums very much):
jheth
@
yahoo
.
com

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[centra12]

I doubt the next leap in sales !!!

1. Same models since 2013
2. High depreciation (only symbolic price after 5 years)
3. As commuter vehicle too expensive (Honda NC / NC-X with DTC 100% better)
4. Poor quality / spare parts supply
5. Electromobility has arrived and nothing special anymore

[dennis-NL]

I doubt the next leap in sales !!!

1. Same models since 2013
2. High depreciation (only symbolic price after 5 years)
3. As commuter vehicle too expensive (Honda NC / NC-X with DTC 100% better)
4. Poor quality / spare parts supply
5. Electromobility has arrived and nothing special anymore

1. But upgraded EV parts inside
2. €8000 for a 2013 DS I don't find symbolic
3. As a commuter very cheap to ride and no maintenance besided brakes, tyres.
4. No problems for 45k km riding every weather, spare parts are there, if you have a good dealer buying them in time from Zero.
5.Still turning heads and questions at traffic light and when I arrive somewere or want to leave.

Just my experience of the oldest version of the current model.
I don't see people complaning about the old VW beetle or golf.
What is good just needs upgrading every year.
But on top of that new models would be welcome.
😎

[centra12]

Can you really sell a 2013 Zero for 8000 €?

The last one  in Europe was sold for less than 6000 €

The technology has also done nothing great. Only the battery was larger. But it's everywhere

[dennis-NL]

Can you really sell a 2013 Zero for 8000 €?

The last one  in Europe was sold for less than 6000 €

The technology has also done nothing great. Only the battery was larger. But it's everywhere

My 2013DS with windscreen, handcaps, 22k km was €8000 at a Motoport dealer a year ago in the Netherlands.
At the time there was also 1 with 15k km for the same price, but without the 2 items and fhurter away.

At the moment 2016DS 16k km for €10,500:

https://www.autoscout24.nl/aanbod/zero-ds-zf12-5-abs-elektrisch-oranje-555e1cea-1755-4cbd-94dc-0026b9fb746f

[centra12]

A year ago. Alright

You can try to sell them now and inform us about the price suggestions you get