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[Richard230]

There is no point in getting a Zero SR vs a Zero S, because the extra power is not usable due to lack of traction control.

Oh lordy, that couldn't be more wrong. Have you ever ridden a motorcycle? I have an SR, and the extra torque (not power) is usable 99.999% of the time. The other 0.001% of the time, nobody's forcing you to twist your wrist too far.

In my case, I have yet felt the need to go WOT on any of the three Zero S bikes that I have owned during the past 7 years.  So the extra power, torque, and of course cost, of an SR just never made any sense to me.  All I want is reliable transportation that I enjoy riding,, which can keep up with the surrounding traffic.  My "S" gives me that.   

[Doug S]

In my case...

Fine. You're entitled to your opinion, and to buy a bike that satisfies your needs. But to say that the extra torque of the SR isn't usable is just wrong in every possible way. Some of us still want MORE torque. Twice the torque of the latest SR, or more than that. Enough to lay scratches or lift the front wheel at freeway speeds. And I'm a careful rider! Nothing says you have to use all the torque you have available all day every day.

[domingo3]

In my case...

Fine. You're entitled to your opinion, and to buy a bike that satisfies your needs. But to say that the extra torque of the SR isn't usable is just wrong in every possible way. Some of us still want MORE torque. Twice the torque of the latest SR, or more than that. Enough to lay scratches or lift the front wheel at freeway speeds. And I'm a careful rider! Nothing says you have to use all the torque you have available all day every day.

Doug, just to clarify, Richard isn't the one that said the SR torque is unusable.  He just said he didn't want it.  I'm in your camp, though.  I would pay the extra for the SR over the S.  On the way to work today, I was actually thinking to myself that I'd love to ride an FXSR.  A size 6 controller on the FXS might be "unusable" to some, but I'm willing to take that risk and modulate with my wrist.

Off-topic, but I just ran across this https://endless-sphere.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=89559 .  I've never been to that site before.  Is "methods" on here under another name?

[BamBam]

I'm also in the camp that believes the "R" model is well worth the additional money.  I like having the extra torque and HP.  I have plenty of opportunities to use WOT on my 2017 DSR and it always puts a smile on my face.  And it's nice knowing that extra kick is there when I need or want it.

[heroto]

The last page and a half reads like: I ride on grippy dry roads and want more more more! vs. I don't always ride on grippy dry roads and have learned the hard way that Zeroes have a wheel spin-crash issue with cold tires on slick pavement.
I ride on both and both points of view make sense. There are times I want to blast through the sound barrier, and times I'm riding on eggs. Crashed once at 3 mph due to too much throttle on cold, damp tires. That sounds trivial, but I went down in a fraction of a second, faster than an ice hockey goalie could have reacted, and got some religion right then and there.
Anyone who claims they can manage wheel spin on a Zero at low speeds on slick pavement (not off road) has my respect, but even more skepticism. ICE rules simply do not apply here.

[Doug S]

Crashed once at 3 mph due to too much throttle on cold, damp tires. That sounds trivial, but I went down in a fraction of a second, faster than an ice hockey goalie could have reacted, and got some religion right then and there.

And you're sure traction control would have saved you from that? If you're leaned over in the middle of a turn, by the time the microprocessor even detects wheelspin, it's too late. Under the best of circumstances, traction control can't do anything about your tires losing grip sideways.

Truth be told, I don't ride when the temperature drops below 35 F (which we do get here in San Diego east county), because there might be ice on the roads. If you don't have spikes in your tires, nothing's going to help much if you hit ice on a motorcycle.

[dittoalex]

Anyone who claims they can manage wheel spin on a Zero at low speeds on slick pavement (not off road) has my respect, but even more skepticism. ICE rules simply do not apply here.

This.  On an ICE liter+ sportsbike you can try to save it by rolling off and squeezing those knees.  There is little room for error to build up one's confidence in the power transfer and chassis response for powering out of a turn.  That lack of confidence, combined with the 140-rear being too anemic to put on a V-profile tire to flick hard, limits the platform.  Not shifting is great for line control, though.   

[domingo3]

The last page and a half reads like: I ride on grippy dry roads and want more more more! vs. I don't always ride on grippy dry roads and have learned the hard way that Zeroes have a wheel spin-crash issue with cold tires on slick pavement.
I ride on both and both points of view make sense. There are times I want to blast through the sound barrier, and times I'm riding on eggs. Crashed once at 3 mph due to too much throttle on cold, damp tires. That sounds trivial, but I went down in a fraction of a second, faster than an ice hockey goalie could have reacted, and got some religion right then and there.
Anyone who claims they can manage wheel spin on a Zero at low speeds on slick pavement (not off road) has my respect, but even more skepticism. ICE rules simply do not apply here.

To clarify, I don't mean to say that I can react to wheelspin on my Zero.  I mean I can use less throttle to avoid wheelspin when conditions are not ideal.  I am also a member of the Zero crash club (on the day I took delivery) and gained respect for the differences between electric and ICE.

[Moto7575]

There have been many critical quality issues, including with the engine - i met an unfortunate customer which engine suddenly stopped on the highway while riding, and I had the same problem (but at a much lower speed). Other issues I encountered involved main board (several time), the battery (had to be replaced), the firmware (had to be changed), some engine sensors (had to be changed) or the belt (suddenly broke).

This could be acceptable if the customer service was good enough to solve this quickly - after all we're all passionate. Unfortunately, at least in Europe, it is not the case. For the engine problem I was left alone for one month. For example - and this is a real example - if the engine breaks after the commercial warranty period (5 years) you will get no answer from Zero (at least in Europe), and the retailer wont be able to help you.

So from my point of view, unless you're ok to pay 18.000$ for a bike that might less only fives years, or unless the customer service improves I would recommend picking a brand handling customer and retailer relations in better way. In Europe KTM or BMW are good, because they sell so many models they can't afford doing this. Maybe it is different elsewhere of course, but check twice before you buy - there are of course some happy customers, but according to my insurance the rate of unhappy customers with Zero is much higher than for most other brands.

   

[Doug S]

To clarify, I don't mean to say that I can react to wheelspin on my Zero.  I mean I can use less throttle to avoid wheelspin when conditions are not ideal.

This. Traction control simply isn't going to save your hide if you don't understand the bike, the conditions, and how to ride in those conditions. That's why I don't ride in icing conditions --I don't encounter them enough to know how to handle them safely, if it is possible.

And I'm probably coming off sounding like I'm anti-traction control, which I'm not in the least. It's a good thing, and the mechanicals are already there, so it's just a matter of firmware being written to provide it. Just don't think traction control is going to make you a better rider in bad conditions. It might help some, at best. ABS does help avert a few accidents, but the great majority of accident avoidance is provided by the driver/rider, which isn't going to change in the near future, if ever. None of these technical solutions will ever replace good skills.

And don't try to sound authoritative while saying something like "The Zero SR has too much torque to use without traction control." That's just untrue to the point of absurdity.

[dittoalex]

And don't try to sound authoritative while saying something like "The Zero SR has too much torque to use without traction control." That's just untrue to the point of absurdity.

For track riding on hot 150 slicks, 116 ft-lbs at 0 RPM could be fun, even without traction control.

For anyone riding on the street, I recommend they save $2500 by choosing the Zero S vs the Zero SR.  Only difference is 80 ft-lbs vs 116 ft-lbs.  Since you have to keep the SR at 40% throttle map for rear comfort and usable range, keep the S at 80% throttle map. 

[Richard230]

And don't try to sound authoritative while saying something like "The Zero SR has too much torque to use without traction control." That's just untrue to the point of absurdity.

For track riding on hot 150 slicks, 116 ft-lbs at 0 RPM could be fun, even without traction control.

For anyone riding on the street, I recommend they save $2500 by choosing the Zero S vs the Zero SR.  Only difference is 80 ft-lbs vs 116 ft-lbs.  Since you have to keep the SR at 40% throttle map for rear comfort and usable range, keep the S at 80% throttle map.

If you add the Power Tank to your "S", you can go with 100% power and torque to help move along that extra 42 pounds of dead weight. 

[Jarrett]

I wanna buy a zero sr in januari but recently saw this crash and i'm i little bit scared about not having traction control because off the high torque.

Does anyone has had this happened to ? or is this just something that happens rarely ?

I found this version of the video:



You can hear him spool up the engine and the rear wheel spin out on him, imo.

I was hoping this was some sort of rear braking issue or wet pavement issue, but I don't think it was.  He was just accelerating out of a turn (didn't sound that aggressive even/fairly controlled) and the rear tire went bye bye.

I'm also considering a Zero and not sure if I want to get into a bike with so much torque and no traction control.

I test rode a DS 14.4 and a FX 7.2 with 81/78 ft-lbs of torque respectively, and they felt powerful, but controllable.

116 ft-lbs. of instant torque and no traction control sounds like a recipe for disaster.  Especially for someone like me that likes to get into the throttle a little too much.

[Crilly]

What happens when the bike looses the rear to the right, the rider compensates by pushing the left handle bar.  Bam, you are down.

What you have to do is ease up on the power while balancing the bike by pushing the right handle bar a few thousandth of an inch.  Just tell your subconscious to balance the bike or you will high side. (Look up)

[Say10 15FX 16FXS]

I watched the video several times. Looks like he may have touched the stripes in the center of the road. Also, the bike looks to be a DS or DSR both of which have dual sport tires (80/20?). If he was on the power, leaned over, and hit the paint on those tires I’m not surprised he crashed. Just my opinion.