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[Richard230]

It also sounds like they are increasing the fast charging speed which will be nice. Like the idea of the 2019 models getting traction control.

I thought they already had traction control?  That is what I seem to recall from reading road tests of the Energica models.   

[ultrarnr]

Richard, I have an EVA 107 and traction control is not on it. I learned with my Zero SR how violently you can get removed from the bike if the rear tire breaks loose and can only imagine how that would play out on the Energica.

[Richard230]

Richard, I have an EVA 107 and traction control is not on it. I learned with my Zero SR how violently you can get removed from the bike if the rear tire breaks loose and can only imagine how that would play out on the Energica.

I am surprised at that. I know that the BMW scooter has traction control and I sure thought that the Energica bikes did also.  I wouldn't think you could ride them in their sport mode without that type of control.  Those things have a beast of a motor and many public roads are not all that great when it comes to traction, especially during the winter when you can suddenly hit ice, flowing water, sand and lots of wet leaves.

Zero has an excuse as they are a bunch of cheapskates when it comes to the latest electronic do-dads, but I thought Energica was the leader when it came to electronic innovation. 

[gt13013]

I’m recommending against a switch. I’m in favor of software control of a solid state switching power supply, reducing the power to zero in a reasonable rampdown rate.

I am interested in the reason why stopping "brutally" a charge could damage something.
In particular, I use a fast charger that reduces the charge speed at the end of its charging session (that is naturally linked with the charge ending by a constant voltage level). But if for one reason I decide to stop the charge before the end, I pull the plug (before the charger). I expect that this "manual switch" does not damage anything...

[ultrarnr]

Richard,

Hey better late than never! On dry roads you can push an Eva 107 pretty hard with no problems. But if there is debris or wet conditions you need to tone it down. No question all that torque is addicting which is why it is hard to get back on a Zero SR after riding the Eva 107. But you have to respect it or you will learn the hard way. Zero could do a lot better in the electronic do-dads than they do. Simply offer them as options. Not everyone wants traction control and many other do-dads. But some do and are willing to pay for them. Somehow Energica managed to figure out DCFC, regen and now traction control. Yes I know Zero has regen but Energica's is far superior. It is what every wants based on all of the discussions in the Zero section here. Maybe someday Zero will figure it out.   Vinny

[Richard230]

What Zero needs is a little competition in their price range, like they were getting when the Brammo Empulse was being marketed.  Why spend any money to make big changes to your product if you have the only game in town (at that price range)?  I think that if the Energica was selling for under $20K, Zero would be in trouble and likely the pressure would be on to make real progress to their platform.

[ultrarnr]

Richard,
 
Completely agree. It is obvious Zero does not see Energica as competition. But I also don't see Energica being able sell under 20K either. The Energica bikes are physically larger and the specs are a lot higher than Zero. Really curious to see where the H-D Live Wire fits into this mix.

[Richard230]

Richard,
 
Completely agree. It is obvious Zero does not see Energica as competition. But I also don't see Energica being able sell under 20K either. The Energica bikes are physically larger and the specs are a lot higher than Zero. Really curious to see where the H-D Live Wire fits into this mix.

I agree regarding Energica's prices.  My guess is that they are loosing at least $5K, if not more, on every bike that they sell. You may recall that when the Energica bikes were introduced to the U.S. the selling prices were in the $30K-$40K range.  I think the Energica motorcycles are being subsidized by the company, likely by both profits from their other divisions as well as money made on the "carbon credits" market, so that they can penetrate and grow market share in the U.S.  I wonder how their pricing in the EU compares with their pricing in the U.S.?

Regarding the LiveWire: H-D has said several times that this is going to be a "premium" product, probably like their CVO stuff. So my guess is that it will sell in the $30K to $40K USD range. They will go for few sales, lots of free press and pats on the back and receive allocates from environmentalists for reducing global warming - while their big ICE twins go rumbling by with all of the emission stuff, along with their mufflers, removed by their owners.   

[tango]

This may have been covered elsewhere but I thought it was applicable to the OP...

I thought I found in my research that Energica's have a larger battery than is published because 11.7kw is what is available for use and the pack is actually 13.1 or 13.3 in size. If that's true, isn't it already being limited under 100% because 100% of 11.7 is only 89% of 13.1.

so by limiting it to 85% of 11.7 aren't you at 76% of 13.1?

[ultrarnr]

Tango,

The total size of the Energica's battery is 13.5kWh and useable is 11.7 kWh. This is what makes comparing battery size confusing because Zero gives total capacity, not useable capacity.

[DonTom]

Tango,

The total size of the Energica's battery is 13.5kWh and useable is 11.7 kWh. This is what makes comparing battery size confusing because Zero gives total capacity, not useable capacity.

Just subtract 13.5% from the total capacity and you will be close enough to the usable.

-Don-  Auburn, CA

[Richard230]

My 2018 16.2 kWh Zero S takes about 15 kWh at the wall to fully recharge from "0". So that should tell you something about the actual capacity of Zero batteries, compared with the advertised capacity, depending upon what electrical efficiency you think their onboard chargers operate at.

[gt13013]

Richard, the capacity of the battery should measure how much electrical work the battery can deliver. That means that you should also add the efficiency of the battery charge, and the efficiency of the battery discharge. That makes a lot of unknowns...

[DonTom]

My 2018 16.2 kWh Zero S takes about 15 kWh at the wall to fully recharge from "0". So that should tell you something about the actual capacity of Zero batteries, compared with the advertised capacity, depending upon what electrical efficiency you think their onboard chargers operate at.

Sounds about right. We normally cannot access the very top of the possible charge as well as the very bottom, which helps the battery life.

-Don-

 

[tango]

My 2018 16.2 kWh Zero S takes about 15 kWh at the wall to fully recharge from "0". So that should tell you something about the actual capacity of Zero batteries, compared with the advertised capacity, depending upon what electrical efficiency you think their onboard chargers operate at.

Sounds about right. We normally cannot access the very top of the possible charge as well as the very bottom, which helps the battery life.

-Don-

so I think this above answers my original question - Yes, the battery already has built in battery longevity tactics (you can only use 85% of battery capacity when you charge it to 100%) so limiting the charge shouldn't have a dramatic effect on increasing battery longevity.

Thanks for the responses!