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[evcognito]

Hello all!
We are an electric motorcycle startup midway into the build of our first Sport-bike style prototype.
We're currently operating in "Stealth" mode but plan to unveil our production model and final stats at the end of the year, with production beginning in 2019.

FYI In an effort to make our production model appeal to the widest possible range of riders as well as to maintain a genuine discussion without turning this onto a "self promotion" post we'd like to stay anonymous which, we know, makes a broad topic broader...

We're looking for feature requests, EV wishlists and concerns you may have. Most importantly though, we'd like your help to identify and fix any common objections you may know about towards electric motorcycles. This being the only forum we've found dedicated to electric motorcycles, we thought it was fitting to begin our search here.

A bit about us and our methodology:
- Were a group of engineers with backgrounds in Aerospace, Marine, Automotive, data analytics and manufacturing engineering located in southern California.
- We believe wholeheartedly in vertical integration. We have and plan on continuing to design, manufacture and assemble nearly every component in house. While it drives the need for more infrastructure and generates much more work, it also guarantees design freedom, the lowest possible costs and ensures we can maintain a level of quality not feasible or affordable from overseas sources.

- As we understand it there are 3 main issues with converting riders to electric (in our assumed order of importance):
    1. Cost - Current electric motorcycles start at around $11K for the most basic example and can approach $40K+. For that money you could have the best gas bike around and still have enough money left over for track days, an enclosed trailer and a second daily commuter. Costs must be comparable to the gas equivalents,. Most importantly however, the bikes quality, performance and aesthetics must be comparable. @~$11k there's a huge market (Yamaha R6, CBR600, moster 797 etc) however the "equivalent" electric bikes either don't exist or start at twice the price.
    2. Range - As with all electric vehicles, range anxiety is almost always the #1 performance concern. With new battery tech and higher efficiency motors/ power electronics new EV's are very close to being able to match what a person could reasonably expect to drive in a day. We believe our bike (as well as other EVs) have just about achieved that, and now its a matter of educating buyers and ensuring charge infrastructure is available to use. 99% of motorcycle trips between stops are <50 miles. Our goal is to make this more than possible with even our lowest capacity model and no change to riding style.
    3. Emotion - People love the noise of a sport bike's engine. Us included. While it can get tiresome in traffic or city driving, there isn't much that compares to it at races or on the track. While we cant match the noise, we do think we can replace that emotion with something different. A powerful, clean looking and silent sport bike with loads of instant torque is a very different feeling. You're no longer saturated with engine noise, you're now focused on the sound of where you are and whats around you. On the road this is a safety benefit, but when you're out for a cruise this creates a completely new and thoroughly enjoyable experience.

The Bike:
- Our prototype/ planned first production model is a small-midsized sport bike with a slightly more relaxed riding position to make daily commute comfortable (think Yamaha R3 riding style)
- Its a full fairing, slim bodied bike weighing around 420 lbs for the 16kWh version (ready to ride)
- In-house designed and built, liquid cooled li-ion battery pack designed for 50% load continuous duty in hot weather. 3 pack sizes; ~8kWh, ~16kWh and ~24KWh will be sold with expected city/highway ranges of 90, 180 and 270 miles respectively.
- Included and built-in level 1 AND 2 charging capability with a max charge rate of at least 40A @240V (~2 miles per minute of charge)
- In house designed 100kW peak power motor and inverter that can handle 60kW continually.
- Direct drive belt and near zero overall maintenance. The coolant system is fully sealed, no oil to change, no filters to clean. Just tire pressure, brake fluid and belt tension checks.
- Hope to have the 8 kWh model sell for ~$11k and the largest pack would be less than $18k. Significantly, this is an actual, delivered to your home price. Charger, 100kw and options included. Also, this cost does not include any tax rebates you may have.
We do acknowledge this is still a chunk of change and will constantly be trying to lower sales price. Not just cost to build. We want the "can afford it" and "want to buy it" venn diagram to basically be a single circle. Unfortunately, much of the possible price decrease can only come with increased sales numbers, which will take some time to achieve.


Obviously anyone can list off some specs and call it a day, but we sincerely believe in our ability to achieve this. Due to owning the design, manufacture and assembly of almost every component we are uniquely positioned to make this be whatever we'd like it to be. It just comes down to choosing our targets.

So that's our take on things, what would you guys like to see and what thoughts do you have about our plans? Ideas big and small are welcome!

[Richard230]

It sounds to me like you have things pretty well worked out on paper. But getting there at an affordable price is going to be really tough. Plus, developing a retail outlet, distribution, service and parts network is not going to be any fun. You are going to need deep pockets to get off the ground with your project. All I can say is good luck!

[Ashveratu]

If it's not capable of DC fast charging, preferably CCS combo (like Energicas), then it will be dead on arrival.

[Richard230]

If it's not capable of DC fast charging, preferably CCS combo (like Energicas), then it will be dead on arrival.

But how much will DC fast charging raise the cost?  I was just at my BMW dealer who sells Energicas and they had 2017, 2018 and 2019 models on the showroom floor.  Going for $25K and up. That is not a price range that is going to generate a lot of sales.

I think most people that would be looking for a moderately priced electric motorcycle are not going to need or want to pay for DC charging. As I see it, the market really needs a well-designed and affordable electric motorcycle for commuting and weekend rides. Let the IC motorcycles handle long distances where DC charging would be an advantage, but fueling with gas is more in line with what riders are comfortable with.

The IC motorcycle owners that might be thinking of riding electric that I have talked to over the years are more interested in range on a single charge than for day rides. I don't think that they want to try to locate a DC charging station while they are out having fun. And it doesn't help that charging stations of all types tend to be vandalized after a while and poorly maintained because they are not manned 24/7 like a gas station and the companies that build them are better at installation than maintenance. In California, there are plans to build thousands of L2 charging stations using grant, utility company and legal-punishment money, but no one is talking about who plans to maintain them and where the money and staff to do so will come from. The thought seems to be that after you build them you can rack up political brownie points and then forget about them, while you go on to build more.   

[evcognito]

It sounds to me like you have things pretty well worked out on paper. But getting there at an affordable price is going to be really tough. Plus, developing a retail outlet, distribution, service and parts network is not going to be any fun. You are going to need deep pockets to get off the ground with your project. All I can say is good luck!

Yes, its a big expensive project. We definitely don't have any doubts about that lol
Distribution, sales locations and servicing methods are a big priority for us. A good way to lose customers is to cut off all contact after taking their cash. We'll need to have a quick way to diagnose and fix any issues people have from day one. We have a few options in work but this is a big source of effort right now.

[evcognito]

If it's not capable of DC fast charging, preferably CCS combo (like Energicas), then it will be dead on arrival.

DC fast charging is not likely something we will include early on... Its not written out yet, but the effort to reward ratio is surprisingly poor. For example, a 60 amp level two charger will fully charge a 16kWh battery in a little over an hour. No charger, regardless of if its level two or DC should charge li-ion batteries faster than about 25 minutes or else you would hurt the lifespan of the cells. It's a lithium cell chemistry problem more than an EV pack problem. In fact, with a battery as small as 24kWh we can pretty much achieve the max safe charge rate with only high amperage level II chargers. DC fast chargers make loads of sense for cars where a large number of cells in parallel can share the load without being overburdened but with bikes its less of a slam dunk. Not worthless of course, but not our top priority. We'd like to gear people towards thinking about it as "how many miles can I get from 1 minute of charging?". With level two charging we can already achieve ~2 miles per minute and with a bit more work we could get up to ~3.5 miles per minute of mixed hwy/city riding. More if you're trying to stretch the range.

Cost wise, building a charger capable of DC fast charging and level 1/2 charging is not much more expensive than just level II. It's more of a design resource issue at the moment. Eventually It will be added, just maybe not rev 1. Not having it certainly wouldn't delay our launch.

[WagonWillie]

I own and ride a Zero SR 13.  Great bike.  It sounds like you want to build a "better" one of those, and that should be able to be done, but I don't know if you can sell your superior design for less money; that's up to you.  One thing that may help is to not do EVERYTHING in house but outsource high quality items like mirrors, headlights, etc.  Go with LED headlight(s) instead of the H4s that Zero uses: less power consumption while providing better light.  But, then you probably already knew that.  A bit more range would be "nice", but I'm pretty much ready to get off and take a break after about 100 miles anyway, so I don't suffer too much from range anxiety.  Mine has a charge tank so it charges fairly quickly.  Quick enough for me anyway.  I tour on an IC bike, so I use the machines much differently.  More cost to own multiple bikes, but more versatility.  The performance of electrics is already pretty stunning so I wouldn't think that you'd have to feel that you have to go overboard there; I'd rather have  more range than better 80-100 mph performance because I never do that on my Zero anyway. 

I'd love to see a really aerodynamic fairing and windshield for electric bikes.  Nothing seems to kill the range faster than 70 mph against a headwind.  Make something that cuts through the wind better and you solve a bunch of problems all at once. 

The Yamaha R3 is an interesting "target" bike as it's not very fast, doesn't offer fully adjustable suspension and ABS is optional, but is only about $6K, about half of your entry bike, so not the same market at all.  The Zero comes with ABS standard, nice fully adjustable Showa suspension and penty fast enough, but $15K+.  Perhaps you might want target something else in the Yamaha lineup like the FZ-07...  Or perhaps you are targeting the ergonomics of the R3, in which case nevermind.

One of the things I love about the Zero is the Eco mode and, even better, the Custom mode.  This turns it into a wonderful beginner's bike!  No clutch, no shifting and I can limit the torque and top speed with my phone app so even a rank beginner can feel comfortable and not overwhelmed, especially because it's quiet and so much less intimidating.   The more folks we can get into the sport the healthier the industry will be.  It would be an interesting ad campaign for a "beginner's" bike that has 120 ft. lbs of torque and can do 115 mph!

[evcognito]

I own and ride a Zero SR 13.  Great bike.  It sounds like you want to build a "better" one of those, and that should be able to be done, but I don't know if you can sell your superior design for less money; that's up to you.  One thing that may help is to not do EVERYTHING in house but outsource high quality items like mirrors, headlights, etc.  Go with LED headlight(s) instead of the H4s that Zero uses: less power consumption while providing better light.  But, then you probably already knew that.  A bit more range would be "nice", but I'm pretty much ready to get off and take a break after about 100 miles anyway, so I don't suffer too much from range anxiety.  Mine has a charge tank so it charges fairly quickly.  Quick enough for me anyway.  I tour on an IC bike, so I use the machines much differently.  More cost to own multiple bikes, but more versatility.  The performance of electrics is already pretty stunning so I wouldn't think that you'd have to feel that you have to go overboard there; I'd rather have  more range than better 80-100 mph performance because I never do that on my Zero anyway. 

I'd love to see a really aerodynamic fairing and windshield for electric bikes.  Nothing seems to kill the range faster than 70 mph against a headwind.  Make something that cuts through the wind better and you solve a bunch of problems all at once. 

The Yamaha R3 is an interesting "target" bike as it's not very fast, doesn't offer fully adjustable suspension and ABS is optional, but is only about $6K, about half of your entry bike, so not the same market at all.  The Zero comes with ABS standard, nice fully adjustable Showa suspension and penty fast enough, but $15K+.  Perhaps you might want target something else in the Yamaha lineup like the FZ-07...  Or perhaps you are targeting the ergonomics of the R3, in which case nevermind.

One of the things I love about the Zero is the Eco mode and, even better, the Custom mode.  This turns it into a wonderful beginner's bike!  No clutch, no shifting and I can limit the torque and top speed with my phone app so even a rank beginner can feel comfortable and not overwhelmed, especially because it's quiet and so much less intimidating.   The more folks we can get into the sport the healthier the industry will be.  It would be an interesting ad campaign for a "beginner's" bike that has 120 ft. lbs of torque and can do 115 mph!

Thanks for the reply!
We'll add a vote for LED vs Xenon! I'm personally a fan of lots of off the shelf mirrors, brake levers, handle bar controls and even grips. I do think we'll end up purchasing some small performance bits like those early on. It'll really come down to the cost and time in the moment. With the right set up we can crank out a years worth of brake levers in a day for dollars a piece, it'll just be a question of if that day is needed for something less "replaceable". To your point, we plan to find (and have found) alternative outside sources for all of the small "hot-swapable" parts. This gives us a great deal of flexibility with both design and schedule.

With regard to the yamaha, We mentioned the R3 because it's a comfortable bike to ride on the road as well as the track which is what we're shooting for. Also, its an extremely well known and popular bike to draw ride style comparisons to. Our seating position is a bit sportier but overall similar. Performance-wise, at 100kW and 420 lbs the bike will have the pull of the 600cc bikes it will be competing with cost-wise.

Aerodynamics are very important to us as well and luckily go hand in hand well with aesthetics. We're fortunate enough to have a partnership with Ansys and have some of the best software available to minimize drag. We expect the full fairings as well as our battery cooling/ continuous amp capability to greatly improve highway range.

I'm glad you mentioned adding custom ride settings. That was one of the things that first turned me onto electric motorcycles. You can have an absolute beast of a performance bike, but flip a switch and it can behave like any regular daily commuter or learner bike. Nothing to be afraid of and can be as relaxed or aggressive as you'd like! We're very excited to start tuning ride modes...

[Erasmo]

DC fast charging is not likely something we will include early on... Its not written out yet, but the effort to reward ratio is surprisingly poor. For example, a 60 amp level two charger will fully charge a 16kWh battery in a little over an hour. No charger, regardless of if its level two or DC should charge li-ion batteries faster than about 25 minutes or else you would hurt the lifespan of the cells. It's a lithium cell chemistry problem more than an EV pack problem. In fact, with a battery as small as 24kWh we can pretty much achieve the max safe charge rate with only high amperage level II chargers. DC fast chargers make loads of sense for cars where a large number of cells in parallel can share the load without being overburdened but with bikes its less of a slam dunk. Not worthless of course, but not our top priority. We'd like to gear people towards thinking about it as "how many miles can I get from 1 minute of charging?". With level two charging we can already achieve ~2 miles per minute and with a bit more work we could get up to ~3.5 miles per minute of mixed hwy/city riding. More if you're trying to stretch the range.

Cost wise, building a charger capable of DC fast charging and level 1/2 charging is not much more expensive than just level II. It's more of a design resource issue at the moment. Eventually It will be added, just maybe not rev 1. Not having it certainly wouldn't delay our launch.

And what will be the mass of that 60A charger be? DC is an inlet and some black magic boxes for communication and switching etc. Iirc correctly my diy Chademo was just around two kilo, with the inlet being the heaviest part of it.

Also, will it be single phase or does it also accept 3 phase?

I own and ride a Zero SR 13.  Great bike.  It sounds like you want to build a "better" one of those, and that should be able to be done, but I don't know if you can sell your superior design for less money; that's up to you.  One thing that may help is to not do EVERYTHING in house but outsource high quality items like mirrors, headlights, etc.  Go with LED headlight(s) instead of the H4s that Zero uses: less power consumption while providing better light.  But, then you probably already knew that.  A bit more range would be "nice", but I'm pretty much ready to get off and take a break after about 100 miles anyway, so I don't suffer too much from range anxiety.  Mine has a charge tank so it charges fairly quickly.  Quick enough for me anyway.  I tour on an IC bike, so I use the machines much differently.  More cost to own multiple bikes, but more versatility.  The performance of electrics is already pretty stunning so I wouldn't think that you'd have to feel that you have to go overboard there; I'd rather have  more range than better 80-100 mph performance because I never do that on my Zero anyway. 

I'd love to see a really aerodynamic fairing and windshield for electric bikes.  Nothing seems to kill the range faster than 70 mph against a headwind.  Make something that cuts through the wind better and you solve a bunch of problems all at once. 

The Yamaha R3 is an interesting "target" bike as it's not very fast, doesn't offer fully adjustable suspension and ABS is optional, but is only about $6K, about half of your entry bike, so not the same market at all.  The Zero comes with ABS standard, nice fully adjustable Showa suspension and penty fast enough, but $15K+.  Perhaps you might want target something else in the Yamaha lineup like the FZ-07...  Or perhaps you are targeting the ergonomics of the R3, in which case nevermind.

One of the things I love about the Zero is the Eco mode and, even better, the Custom mode.  This turns it into a wonderful beginner's bike!  No clutch, no shifting and I can limit the torque and top speed with my phone app so even a rank beginner can feel comfortable and not overwhelmed, especially because it's quiet and so much less intimidating.   The more folks we can get into the sport the healthier the industry will be.  It would be an interesting ad campaign for a "beginner's" bike that has 120 ft. lbs of torque and can do 115 mph!

Thanks for the reply!
We'll add a vote for LED vs Xenon! I'm personally a fan of lots of off the shelf mirrors, brake levers, handle bar controls and even grips. I do think we'll end up purchasing some small performance bits like those early on. It'll really come down to the cost and time in the moment. With the right set up we can crank out a years worth of brake levers in a day for dollars a piece, it'll just be a question of if that day is needed for something less "replaceable". To your point, we plan to find (and have found) alternative outside sources for all of the small "hot-swapable" parts. This gives us a great deal of flexibility with both design and schedule.

With regard to the yamaha, We mentioned the R3 because it's a comfortable bike to ride on the road as well as the track which is what we're shooting for. Also, its an extremely well known and popular bike to draw ride style comparisons to. Our seating position is a bit sportier but overall similar. Performance-wise, at 100kW and 420 lbs the bike will have the pull of the 600cc bikes it will be competing with cost-wise.

Aerodynamics are very important to us as well and luckily go hand in hand well with aesthetics. We're fortunate enough to have a partnership with Ansys and have some of the best software available to minimize drag. We expect the full fairings as well as our battery cooling/ continuous amp capability to greatly improve highway range.

I'm glad you mentioned adding custom ride settings. That was one of the things that first turned me onto electric motorcycles. You can have an absolute beast of a performance bike, but flip a switch and it can behave like any regular daily commuter or learner bike. Nothing to be afraid of and can be as relaxed or aggressive as you'd like! We're very excited to start tuning ride modes...

Do go for ots mirrors, levers etc, work on the most important parts like battery, motor etc first. Nobody is going to walk away from the bike because there are some ots bits and bobs on it.

Considering the L1 charging side, being able to (slow) destination charge my Zero with just a regular kettle lead is a godsend.

[David S]

Your planned stats sound incredible, really hope you are able to develop that. I've owned 2 zeros (currently a 2017 SR) and am hoping on upgrading to an ego around 2020. If this bike comes out before then i would definitely give it consideration. The fairing and cooling system are an advantage over zero.

I agree that DC fast charging isnt a necessity. To me this is only important for long distant travel, and until infrastructure and range of bikes increase it won't be really important. Though if you are able to develop a 24kwh 270mile range bike, it sounds like it would be really useful on that.

For me personally, I am a performance junkie so i gravitate to the bikes with the most power and good design.

[evcognito]

DC fast charging is not likely something we will include early on... Its not written out yet, but the effort to reward ratio is surprisingly poor. For example, a 60 amp level two charger will fully charge a 16kWh battery in a little over an hour. No charger, regardless of if its level two or DC should charge li-ion batteries faster than about 25 minutes or else you would hurt the lifespan of the cells. It's a lithium cell chemistry problem more than an EV pack problem. In fact, with a battery as small as 24kWh we can pretty much achieve the max safe charge rate with only high amperage level II chargers. DC fast chargers make loads of sense for cars where a large number of cells in parallel can share the load without being overburdened but with bikes its less of a slam dunk. Not worthless of course, but not our top priority. We'd like to gear people towards thinking about it as "how many miles can I get from 1 minute of charging?". With level two charging we can already achieve ~2 miles per minute and with a bit more work we could get up to ~3.5 miles per minute of mixed hwy/city riding. More if you're trying to stretch the range.

Cost wise, building a charger capable of DC fast charging and level 1/2 charging is not much more expensive than just level II. It's more of a design resource issue at the moment. Eventually It will be added, just maybe not rev 1. Not having it certainly wouldn't delay our launch.

And what will be the mass of that 60A charger be? DC is an inlet and some black magic boxes for communication and switching etc. Iirc correctly my diy Chademo was just around two kilo, with the inlet being the heaviest part of it.

Also, will it be single phase or does it also accept 3 phase?

I own and ride a Zero SR 13.  Great bike.  It sounds like you want to build a "better" one of those, and that should be able to be done, but I don't know if you can sell your superior design for less money; that's up to you.  One thing that may help is to not do EVERYTHING in house but outsource high quality items like mirrors, headlights, etc.  Go with LED headlight(s) instead of the H4s that Zero uses: less power consumption while providing better light.  But, then you probably already knew that.  A bit more range would be "nice", but I'm pretty much ready to get off and take a break after about 100 miles anyway, so I don't suffer too much from range anxiety.  Mine has a charge tank so it charges fairly quickly.  Quick enough for me anyway.  I tour on an IC bike, so I use the machines much differently.  More cost to own multiple bikes, but more versatility.  The performance of electrics is already pretty stunning so I wouldn't think that you'd have to feel that you have to go overboard there; I'd rather have  more range than better 80-100 mph performance because I never do that on my Zero anyway. 

I'd love to see a really aerodynamic fairing and windshield for electric bikes.  Nothing seems to kill the range faster than 70 mph against a headwind.  Make something that cuts through the wind better and you solve a bunch of problems all at once. 

The Yamaha R3 is an interesting "target" bike as it's not very fast, doesn't offer fully adjustable suspension and ABS is optional, but is only about $6K, about half of your entry bike, so not the same market at all.  The Zero comes with ABS standard, nice fully adjustable Showa suspension and penty fast enough, but $15K+.  Perhaps you might want target something else in the Yamaha lineup like the FZ-07...  Or perhaps you are targeting the ergonomics of the R3, in which case nevermind.

One of the things I love about the Zero is the Eco mode and, even better, the Custom mode.  This turns it into a wonderful beginner's bike!  No clutch, no shifting and I can limit the torque and top speed with my phone app so even a rank beginner can feel comfortable and not overwhelmed, especially because it's quiet and so much less intimidating.   The more folks we can get into the sport the healthier the industry will be.  It would be an interesting ad campaign for a "beginner's" bike that has 120 ft. lbs of torque and can do 115 mph!

Thanks for the reply!
We'll add a vote for LED vs Xenon! I'm personally a fan of lots of off the shelf mirrors, brake levers, handle bar controls and even grips. I do think we'll end up purchasing some small performance bits like those early on. It'll really come down to the cost and time in the moment. With the right set up we can crank out a years worth of brake levers in a day for dollars a piece, it'll just be a question of if that day is needed for something less "replaceable". To your point, we plan to find (and have found) alternative outside sources for all of the small "hot-swapable" parts. This gives us a great deal of flexibility with both design and schedule.

With regard to the yamaha, We mentioned the R3 because it's a comfortable bike to ride on the road as well as the track which is what we're shooting for. Also, its an extremely well known and popular bike to draw ride style comparisons to. Our seating position is a bit sportier but overall similar. Performance-wise, at 100kW and 420 lbs the bike will have the pull of the 600cc bikes it will be competing with cost-wise.

Aerodynamics are very important to us as well and luckily go hand in hand well with aesthetics. We're fortunate enough to have a partnership with Ansys and have some of the best software available to minimize drag. We expect the full fairings as well as our battery cooling/ continuous amp capability to greatly improve highway range.

I'm glad you mentioned adding custom ride settings. That was one of the things that first turned me onto electric motorcycles. You can have an absolute beast of a performance bike, but flip a switch and it can behave like any regular daily commuter or learner bike. Nothing to be afraid of and can be as relaxed or aggressive as you'd like! We're very excited to start tuning ride modes...

Do go for ots mirrors, levers etc, work on the most important parts like battery, motor etc first. Nobody is going to walk away from the bike because there are some ots bits and bobs on it.

Considering the L1 charging side, being able to (slow) destination charge my Zero with just a regular kettle lead is a godsend.

So our current charger is actually 10kW max (~42A @ 240v). It also has a built in (but detachable) 15ft 110v cord on a small spool so no matter where you are you can charge. We do have a design for a 60A level 2 charger started but decided to hold off since 60A is too much to safely charge the smallest pack with. It would be charging each cell with such a high amperage that the life of the cell would be negatively effected. This is tough to get around, we have some of the most impressive li-ion cells available and still have this issue.

With all the DC fast charging questions, super fast charge time seems to be whats on people's minds... May have to revisit the 60A and CCS ideas as options for the larger packs. I do worry about giving people the ability to charge fast (50A+ DC) and then saying "don't do this all the time or your battery life will be hurt" because nobody ever listens to those warning (myself most of all...) We will fully and completely back our products, namely have a kick ass battery warranty, but will not be able to support replacing batteries every 4 years because people fast charge them 100 times a year... its a delicate balance. We'll look over it again though. thank you all for the input!

Fun side note to the above point, we're working on a battery lifespan predictor which could be made to tell people how their riding and charging styles effect the pack's longevity. It would constantly update and even tell riders if the pack capacity has decreased enough to get a replacement under warranty. This isn't an unusually pressing issue, we're expecting ~8 years out of the average pack (particularly the larger packs) but its definitely something people ignore until its a problem and we want to eliminate that problem.

Glad to hear you all don't mind a few standard parts either! like I said, we'll likely have some early on, specifically mirrors and hand controls so we're happy to hear that wont turn people off!

[evcognito]

Your planned stats sound incredible, really hope you are able to develop that. I've owned 2 zeros (currently a 2017 SR) and am hoping on upgrading to an ego around 2020. If this bike comes out before then i would definitely give it consideration. The fairing and cooling system are an advantage over zero.

I agree that DC fast charging isnt a necessity. To me this is only important for long distant travel, and until infrastructure and range of bikes increase it won't be really important. Though if you are able to develop a 24kwh 270mile range bike, it sounds like it would be really useful on that.

For me personally, I am a performance junkie so i gravitate to the bikes with the most power and good design.

Thanks a lot!
We're hoping to combine the best of both worlds. Pretty performance bike with the cost and practicality of the industry leading zero's. We're all big fans of the Zero, this endeavor started a couple years ago precisely because I rode a DSR and loved the experience but was not a fan of the style or lack of duty cycle ability (no cooling in the huge, self heating, sealed thermal mass that is the battery)

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

Make it serviceable, make the fairing actually do the work of economizing the bike at speed, and make the frame robust.

A cooling system is a good idea, but the performance metrics listed are worthless off the track. Provide a derated version for people who don’t have a death wish, please, and who’d rather pay for marathon bikes over sprint bikes.

I maintain zeromanual.com, have logged 33k miles on a DSR, and have a background in data analytics, so I hope you probably already know what might persuade me.

[evcognito]

Make it serviceable, make the fairing actually do the work of economizing the bike at speed, and make the frame robust.

A cooling system is a good idea, but the performance metrics listed are worthless off the track. Provide a derated version for people who don’t have a death wish, please, and who’d rather pay for marathon bikes over sprint bikes.

I maintain zeromanual.com, have logged 33k miles on a DSR, and have a background in data analytics, so I hope you probably already know what might persuade me.

Being serviceable by someone who is less than a professional is a very good note. The "simplicity" (or rather low part count) of electric motorcycles lends nicely towards that, and our necessity to "design for manufacturability"  helps there too. We are also making an effort to ensure everything is easily replaceable. That's one of our ideas to make servicing easier, give the riders the option to install replacement parts themselves. Your motor controller dies? we just ship out a new one and it's plug and play with the old one. Hopefully we can also provide something as well put together as the "unofficial Zero manual". Bravo on your efforts there. That's a good source for little inefficiencies and difficulties we can fix.

[Anubis-R]

1/ As a daily user, mainly for commuting, I find the idea of integrated cable very interesting as it remove totally the "range anxiety" which is a big issue for selling E-Motorcycle.

I don't use DCFC on my energica for the moment...and up to now, even a 10kW charger seems enought for me.
I don't want to shorten the battery life with too much Fast Charges anyway.
I don't ride often more than 300km a day... even with my ICE bike, and if I do, I'm pretty sure that a 10kW charger would be sufficient.


2/ An other good thing is the Drive belt, which is better for an EV than a regular chain in my opinion.
But regarding the number of today bikes using a chain...there is certainly lot of advantages to use std chains versus belt...especially on high torque/Power bikes.


3/ A good thing would be to allow users to precisly create their own riding modes, and trigger everything to fit what they prefer.
so I recommend having an app which can read every information from the bike (Everything ) and which can allow advanced users to modify parameters regarding their own preferences.