Print

Please login or register.
1 Hour 1 Day 1 Week 1 Month Forever
Login with username, password and session length

[wavelet]

Fantasy:
Tesla buys Zero. Synergy galore!

Beyond the fact that Musk has said he has 0 interest in motorcycles, there are actually no synergies. There is pretty much no overlap between motorcycle & car design, drivetrain-wise or otherwise.

[caza]

#1 what I think they need is price, even at a novelty level.

If they could make an appealing minibike like the grom reaper for $4k they'll be at a reasonable entry level price for new riders. Most new riders can't afford or justify a zero and most not-new riders are set in their ways and offended by a lack of clutch and noise.

Minibikes like the grom and z125 are super popular among younger people and new riders and simply don't require impressive power, top speed, or range like bigger bikes. I think it could be a great addition to their lineup to help bring in new customers to their brand.

Zero isn't going to win right now by making the fastest or most powerful or even longest range bike. The customers willing to shell out the money just aren't there. But they can grow by making entry-level electric motorcycling appealing. Then focus on high end as the customer base grows and the batteries get cheaper.

[BrianTRice@gmail.com]

I can see no way for them to make that Grom Reaper for less than $7000.

Zero people said explicitly to me when I first saw that bike, that they can’t sell the bike for less than the cost of the powertrain, and that’s why the Grom Reaper is only a showcase experiment and not a real model that can price-compete with what people want to pay for Groms.

That Grom Reaper, BTW, has way more power than you can responsibly sell to people. It wheelies more easily than it rides. No, I didn’t try it. But Zero’s lightest motor+controller combination is still too much for it.

[caza]

I want to be clear that I was using the reaper as an example of an electric minibike, I would never expect them to put that full powertrain in a commercial product. I saw how overly wheely happy it is. The existing grom reaper as a commercial bike is obviously not viable.

But certainly they can put a less powerful powertrain in a minibike and still match or exceed a stock grom?

[Killroy]

Oh, and you think Zero is making money? 

[Fran K]

……... Older people who have lots more disposable income than young people are pretty much set in their ways and continue to look for big, fancy, expensive IC cruisers; or big, fancy, expensive IC SUV-types.  And all want lots of noise. On all of the IC motorcycle forums that I visit, every one has a popular thread about changing the stock quiet muffler to one that makes more noise.  And none of the comments seem to be concerned about hearing damage or the impact of the noise on the general public.

Figuring out what direction to go to expand an electric motorcycle market is a tough decision for any new company that doesn't have other products to keep them financially afloat.  Even Polaris wasn't able to make the purchase of the well-developed Brammo product pencil-out. That really surprised me. 

Those big fancy cruiser type of bikes go by this address in huge bunches.  I assume from the group rides I have been on they pull into large convience store gasoline station with like 10 or more pumps.  I can see no way short of swappable batteries carried in a chase vehicle that folks that buy that kind of bike can go electric.   edit:  Our club has a yearly ride and there is a chase vehicle so anyone with swappable batteries could be accomidated.

I am hoping for a company that makes their parts and parts prices easily accessible point and click on the internet.  Like Bikebandit, or rockymountainatv.  Maybe the BMW scooter is, my ktm freeride best I can do is the chasis back a couple of years.  I was told at the local Zero dealer if they sell for less than list they loose their franchise.

What do I want to see for 2019?  front wheel drive or drive assist and no chain or belt in the rear, a nice seat, lots of places to attach stuff, just hard points, a kick stand that won't sink in and goes out far enough so the angles of things are kind of suitable for a wide variety of possible ground contours.

[Fran K]

Oh, and you think Zero is making money? 

Isn't Zero is private company meaning I can't buy stock and get an annual report in the mail?  The invest in electric motorcycle section on here is not active.


Whether yearly profits or dividends to investors is important compared to the value of the company or the stock price may not really be all that important besides not going bankrupt.

[Lecram]

Motorcycling in general (electric or ICE) is bigger in Europe than in the States.  In Europe they are valid forms of everyday transportation.  In the US, unfortunately, they are viewed as simply "toys."  Sad, but true.

There are big diffrrences in Europe. The S-European countries have much more light bikes, which are used for cummuting, but in NW Europe, only a few people use their bike for commuting. In NW Europe, bikes are much bigger (a 1000 cc isn't even big) and also used for hobby purposes.

[Killroy]

Oh, and you think Zero is making money? 

Isn't Zero is private company meaning I can't buy stock and get an annual report in the mail?  The invest in electric motorcycle section on here is not active.


Whether yearly profits or dividends to investors is important compared to the value of the company or the stock price may not really be all that important besides not going bankrupt.

Zero may be a private company but the $14 Million in funding last year is not:  https://www.crunchbase.com/organization/zero-motorcycles.

I don't know why this information is on the internet or if its accurate. 

[guppie70]

Most new riders can't afford or justify a zero and most not-new riders are set in their ways and offended by a lack of clutch and noise.

I do not agree with that. I think that the issue with Zero is that the drivetrain is nice/good-enough, but all the rest (design, missing full-fairing, suspension hardware, instruments) is sub-par surely given the price of the current lineup.
Do not think that experienced riders are offended by the lack of a clutch or noise, but more about the issues mentioned above.

[walrus]

I completely agree with guppie70. I'm in the UK and had a test ride on the Zero S and really loved it. Just what I need for commuting.
But at that price £12,190 I expect it to have at least a half fairing, LED lights (it is an electric bike after all!), heated grips would be nice too.
It's just too basic at the moment, so I'm waiting to see what the 2019 model brings.....

[Richard230]

I believe that Zero offers electrically heated grips as an after-sale factory accessory. And while a windshield may not look as nice as a 1/2 fairing, they work pretty good at reducing wind resistance and protecting the rider. No doubt if Zero had an Italian styling their bikes, they would look a lot nicer. But can they afford an Italian stylist?   

[domingo3]

I completely agree with guppie70. I'm in the UK and had a test ride on the Zero S and really loved it. Just what I need for commuting.
But at that price £12,190 I expect it to have at least a half fairing, LED lights (it is an electric bike after all!), heated grips would be nice too.
It's just too basic at the moment, so I'm waiting to see what the 2019 model brings.....

Different strokes for different folks.  You can never make everyone happy.  In the past, I've not even considered models that didn't have an unfaired version.  LED lights add to the overall price and lighting is an insignificant electrical load.  Heated grips are pretty easy to add on to any bike.  Basically, anything that a group of people want, another group will not want either because they truly don't want it, or they don't value it and don't want to pay for it.

It would be great if Zero had add-on options like a bolt-on fairing or plug and play LED lights that work reasonably well.  The user community has put a lot of effort into these things with mixed results.  Current accessories that Zero sells seem to be overpriced/marked up for things that are just off the shelf items that require no customization.  I assume this is a signal that Zero wants to focus on the core product.  Even the simple, low cost things that I want, I expect to copy paste into the "What do we want for 2020" thread that will no doubt be posted before years' end.

[GilTitan06]

In waiting for news I personalize my Zero:

[togo]

In waiting for news I personalize my Zero:

I do like that headlight.