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Author Topic: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?  (Read 1039 times)

domingo3

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Is there a battery life issue with level 1 charging, or am I misinterpreting what is being said here?

"Paschel said Zero Motorcycles can be plugged into any 110 outlet nationwide, although the batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station."

From the article https://www.cnbc.com/amp/2018/08/05/electric-motorcycles-are-already-here-and-likely-more-are-coming.html



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gborgan

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #1 on: August 06, 2018, 09:05:55 PM »

Except for that quote, it was a nice article I thought. Most likely the writer misunderstood.  Based on everything I’ve read or heard about EVs, slow charging rates are best for battery longevity.


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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #2 on: August 06, 2018, 09:37:31 PM »

The CEO was not misquoted, based on other evidence. Charging with the onboard charger is essentially trickle charging that warms the battery for a longer period of time than a shorter charge at a higher rate, and this is what’s been referred to lately in some testing results.

This is all unconfirmed insider secondhand reports but these reports have been consistent for the last 12-18 months or so.

The annual rate of sales growth cited is too high, and inconsistent with the 2021 projection, though.
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gborgan

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #3 on: August 06, 2018, 09:56:33 PM »

The CEO was not misquoted, based on other evidence. Charging with the onboard charger is essentially trickle charging that warms the battery for a longer period of time than a shorter charge at a higher rate, and this is what’s been referred to lately in some testing results.


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gborgan

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #4 on: August 06, 2018, 09:58:35 PM »

Sorry. Not as experienced with the Tapatalk system as you guys[emoji846].

Wanted to say...does this new evidence suggest the best way to charge your Tesla then, is via The Supercharger rather than Level 2?   Since they have active battery cooling perhaps it does t matter.


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heroto

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #5 on: August 06, 2018, 10:29:00 PM »

The CEO was not misquoted, based on other evidence. Charging with the onboard charger is essentially trickle charging that warms the battery for a longer period of time than a shorter charge at a higher rate, and this is what’s been referred to lately in some testing results.

This makes me wonder if regenerative charging, which is low power, also shortens battery life.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #6 on: August 06, 2018, 10:33:41 PM »

The CEO was not misquoted, based on other evidence. Charging with the onboard charger is essentially trickle charging that warms the battery for a longer period of time than a shorter charge at a higher rate, and this is what’s been referred to lately in some testing results.

This makes me wonder if regenerative charging, which is low power, also shortens battery life.

No.

You should be more concerned about whether riding the motorcycle shortens battery life, because regeneration only happens in the middle of a much more intense current use.

That’s a joke of course.

Just ride the damn bike.

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heroto

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #7 on: August 06, 2018, 11:19:12 PM »

Ouch.

Edit: I do get it that these issues are mainly theoretical.
« Last Edit: August 07, 2018, 02:51:12 AM by heroto »
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MrDude_1

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #8 on: August 07, 2018, 12:13:49 AM »

The CEO was not misquoted, based on other evidence. Charging with the onboard charger is essentially trickle charging that warms the battery for a longer period of time than a shorter charge at a higher rate, and this is what’s been referred to lately in some testing results.

This makes me wonder if regenerative charging, which is low power, also shortens battery life.


these arguments are akin to arguing if parking a typical motorcycle ages the gasoline... of course it does. the gasoline gets older. VOCs come off and it has less power. etc...
but in the real world, there is no difference. its all theory.

that said, regen is actually high level charging, for a short amount of time. nothing wrong with it.
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Doug S

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #9 on: August 07, 2018, 01:03:45 AM »

I do remember seeing a while back that Tesla (which gathers telemetric, anonymous data from all cars) has discovered that charging at the superchargers either has no impact on battery capacity, or may even be slightly beneficial in helping the batteries maintain their capacity.

But yeah, WAAAAY too much brainpower is being wasted on trying to eke out as much battery life as possible. The early Nissan Leafs (Leaves?) had a poorly-designed battery pack, which would overheat on a regular basis and offered very little battery life, and that's got a lot of people worried to this day, but properly-designed EV battery packs just don't have that problem. Ride the bike. Recharge it when it's convenient, all night overnight is probably very convenient. You're not going to hurt the battery pack unless you do something way, way outside the box -- and even then, the BMS won't let you do any serious damage for 1000s of charge cycles.
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heroto

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #10 on: August 07, 2018, 06:02:41 AM »

The CEO was not misquoted, based on other evidence. Charging with the onboard charger is essentially trickle charging that warms the battery for a longer period of time than a shorter charge at a higher rate, and this is what’s been referred to lately in some testing results.

This makes me wonder if regenerative charging, which is low power, also shortens battery life.


these arguments are akin to arguing if parking a typical motorcycle ages the gasoline... of course it does. the gasoline gets older. VOCs come off and it has less power. etc...
but in the real world, there is no difference. its all theory.

that said, regen is actually high level charging, for a short amount of time. nothing wrong with it.

At the risk of getting ridiculed further, I'll add this experience:
I enjoyed my 2018 7.2S in the southern Appalachians recently, about 300 miles total. 10- 15% grades for up to 3+ miles are common. Coasting down such a grade at high speed I'd be lucky to regain almost 1% of charge, usually less, and on gentler grades or at low speeds much less, more like 0.2% during the course of 5-10 minutes. 

Edit: to be clear, I’m referring to regen while coasting, not the higher rate regen during braking.

By comparison, plugging into 110v household outlet generates 1% every 3 minutes.

Just coasting on the flats the recharge must be nearly negligible. I'm not smart enough to know the difference between high and low charging, but that must be very low.

No I'm not going to turn off regen braking,  fret futilely if I inadvertently charge to 100% (whatever 100% means) instead of 80% (whatever 80% means), or ride less than all I can to protect the diva battery.  I'm just curious. 
« Last Edit: August 09, 2018, 02:27:54 AM by heroto »
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dukecola

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #11 on: August 07, 2018, 07:14:38 AM »

I recall reading on one of my other EV forums that fast charging exposes the batteries to the exchange process for a less period of time and that is better for longevity than a battery exposed for long periods.  I "fast" charged yesterday for 15 mins.  I have to think this has got to be less impact than a slow charger for a 3 hr period.
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #12 on: August 07, 2018, 11:58:40 PM »

I recall reading on one of my other EV forums that fast charging exposes the batteries to the exchange process for a less period of time and that is better for longevity than a battery exposed for long periods.  I "fast" charged yesterday for 15 mins.  I have to think this has got to be less impact than a slow charger for a 3 hr period.

This is a more accurate interpretation ("exposes the batteries to the exchange process for a shorter period of time") of what I've been hearing than my phrasing in terms of heat production. It's a dynamic electrochemical condition worth keeping shorter (up to the point where the heat production from a higher rate of charge impacts the battery in other ways).
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BamBam

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #13 on: August 08, 2018, 12:11:06 AM »

Now Diginow just needs to get their prices down.  The current pricing is a little too rich for my taste.

SuperCharger v2.5 3.3kW one unit in the pan = $2035 + shipping
SuperCharger v2.5 6.6kW dual units in the pan = $2425 + shipping
SuperCharger v2.5 9.9kW triple units in the pan = $3435 + shipping

SuperCharger v2.5 3.3kW one unit bare (for FXS owners) = $1735 + shipping
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BrianTRice@gmail.com

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Re: Batteries last longer if charged on a traditional charging station?
« Reply #14 on: August 08, 2018, 12:22:22 AM »

No, DigiNow needs to communicate their value more.

Or, alternatively, DigiNow needs to make their product more valuable by making it more usable, serviceable, and flexible.

If you think a cheaper, unconfigured charger is a better value than DigiNow's, they've done a poor job of convincing you of what they're doing.
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